the Jesus Manifesto - Latest Comments in 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Adam — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:39:40 -0000

"God sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous"

I heard someone say that the righteous person's rain is God's saving grace, as dispensed by the Church. The unrighteous one's rain is God's common grace, as dispensed by the social institutions (government, schools, firefighters, police). Such a world as our needs all the grace it can get, I think.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Ben Robinson — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:01:47 -0000

I'm not sure voting is indistinguishable from other ways one might participate in the American political structure. Some of the other acts of participation mentioned (e.g. taxes, public transportation, health care, etc.) tend to be part of rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's without attempting to secure Caesar's place for the church. I would distinguish voting from these because it is the primary way in which political power is exercised in the United States. The power, allegedly, is in the people. Thus, although voting may not be undertaken with the intent to wield the power of the state, it is really one of the most profound ways that Americans do wield political power. Thus, it seems to me that this might make the church's witness to the state unintelligible, or at least significantly obscured.

Just a thought. I'm not trying to debunk your ten points but do think it's important to clarify the place of voting in regards to political power.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

joe troyer — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:02:15 -0000

good word casey. i think for myself, it isnt about not participating in the system as much as i fear the violence my vote endorses. my last vote in the presidential election is costing lives today. it may be an overstatement, but my vote was an endorsement of some sort.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

jurisnaturalist — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:12:17 -0000

The problem with voting among Christians is that it tends to be a battle over control of the political mechanism. If it is possible to vote in a way that increases limitations on the power of the political mechanism it is advisable to do so. In so doing we limit the power which the state exercise over innocents and participate in an act of mercy. This is in my view legitimately prophetic.
If the motivation for voting is to gain hold of a larger portion of the franchise for the purpose of exercising its power in our own behalf, in order to capture privilege, then it is altogether evil and no better than the actual use of violence on others.
Nathanael Snow
ndsnow@gmail.com

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Casey Ochs — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:06:08 -0000

If you choose to not vote as a prophetic voice against "the system" (a legitimate option) then you also need to be ready to reasonably defend your positions Scripturally. How people view your actions is important; this is part of your prophetic Christian witness and is not to be confused with "fear of man" or caring what other people think of you.

If you say "I don't vote because I do not wish to participate in the system" then you run the risk of being asked why you take public transportation, send your kids to public school or are enrolled in state sponsored health care, all of which operate, of course, thru public funding and the voters' mandate. It's one thing to be called a slacker, it's another to be called a hypocrite.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Mark Van Steenwyk — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:30:02 -0000

Joe, you are certainly correct. I may have overstated things a bit. I don't think we should care too much about other's perceptions, but those perceptions do matter when our goal is presenting a counter-witness.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

joe troyer — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:43:28 -0000

I hear you Mark.

Did the prophets of the OT have credibility? Many were murdered for their words because it didn't play to what they wanted to hear. Obviously they were credible. God was using them as a voice to His people. But did the people view them as credible or were they blatantly rebelling against God's call to them? I know the people of Ninevah listened.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

Mark Van Steenwyk — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:13:08 -0000

These arguments make more sense as a counter argument to my article than as a stand alone, I think. The prophetic nature of our faith means that we should care what others think. In other words, a prophet without credibility doesn't have much of a witness.

Re: 10 Reasons to Vote: A Sympathetic Challenge to Mark’s 10 Reasons NOT to Vote

joe troyer — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:28:24 -0000

Some of those arguments seemed to based around what others might think (10, 9, 6, 5). I dont discount all your arguments. I guess i just dont care what others think so much when it comes to this issue.

But maybe i should vote because hey... free sticker. lol.