DISQUS

lpkb · 4 months ago

RE: the kingdom is among you... A few thoughts off the top of my head, mostly relating to points one and two.

My tradition refers to the timing of the arrival of the kingdom as "now/not yet" -- it is here now in and among us, but not yet fully realized in all people and places. (See your local newspaper for proof of that). And while it's true that we don't build the kingdom by our own efforts, it seems clear that we are definitely empowered by the Spirit and called by Jesus to do kingdom works.

paul munn · 4 months ago

Yes, Laryn. Though I'm saying that both the kingdom "now" and the kingdom "not yet" are given to us in startlingly immediate ways, which make it clear that the kingdom of God is not our accomplishment but God's gift.

And I think perhaps all these misconceptions come more from reading our local newspaper than from looking at Jesus and experiencing his miraculous kingdom life for ourselves...

lpkb · 4 months ago

To say that both "now" and "not yet" are given now seems to me to be a way of saying there is no "not yet." The "not yet" will arrive fully with Christ's return and to conflate that with "now" seems unwise.

Not acknowledging that the kingdom is not yet fully here (although clearly we can experience his miraculous kingdom in our lives already now in many ways) is dangerous and would seem to suggest that the broken parts of our world are accurate portrayals of the way things should be. I prefer the imagery of birth pangs, with all of creation yearning for the "not yet" to fully arrive.

paul munn · 4 months ago

Yes, I didn't mean the future, full revealing of the kingdom is already given, but that when it is given it will be given in an immediate way (not slowly, gradually). "Like lightning." "Suddenly like a snare." Like the city coming down from heaven in Rev 21. In a way that makes it clear that this is something prepared for us by God and given as a gift to us.

Also, I do think it is more important to emphasize the kingdom present. People almost universally accept "a better future to come one day." (When Obama preached that, he got elected president.) And that had been part of Jewish belief long before Jesus; what was surprising in his preaching was the announcement that the kingdom had arrived with him. And his invitation for us to experience it with him. Now.

That's the startling good news that I don't think we Christians preach well (or live well). But I suppose we have to experience the reality of it to be able to preach it truthfully.

Zack Allen · 4 months ago

"People almost universally accept 'a better future to come one day.'"

That's because a great many lay Christians are dispensational premillennialists. ;)

Zack Allen · 4 months ago

There is certainly "a better future to come one day," but the reality is that the Kingdom was established in the earth some 2000 years ago. I love the topic of the already/not yet tension.

Don Heatley · 4 months ago

Paul,
I agree we can make it sound like our work "brings about" the kingdom, a la classic Social Gospel. Sometimes, as I wrap up my pastoral prayers, I fall into that language of "as we help build your Son's Kingdom here in our community..."

Granted the NT speaks of it as a gift, yet also describes us as laborers. Perhaps the imagery was intentionally open-ended to avoid us nailing it down? The very act of preaching and forming churches implies some co-participation on our part, as does the command to go and make disciples. Although, the success of God's project is never portrayed as contingent upon it.

Great thought-provoking post.
Peace,
Don

paul munn · 4 months ago

Thanks, Don. Yes, the imagery of laborers is used by Jesus, but I think we need to pay close attention to how he used it, because his laborers seem different from most.

For example, he referred to his disciples as laborers in Mt 10.10. But when he told them to "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons," it was not by labor that they were to do so. They did these things by the power of God, not by their own hard work (not, for example, by medical technology or psychiatric therapy). All it required of them was a word, as we see also in Jesus' own ministry. This was not labor as it is commonly understood, and definitely not "creating a new and divine order" through years of organized human effort. Something else was "at work" there. (For more on this, go here: "being prophetic")

In that example the disciples did not even work to support themselves, but gave their time and service to others freely, and then lived by the generosity of others who gave to them. Also quite different from the model of "hard work" that we usually see. And an amazing part of the real kingdom life seen among them. (For more on this, see this series of articles here: "Come to me, all ye who labor for a living," and part 2, and part 3)

Then there are Jesus' words about labor in John 6, when he responded challengingly to those he had miraculously fed the day before:

"Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you..." (Jn 6.27)

Note that when he says "labor" for the food that endures, he follows it by "which the Son of man will give to you." He's really offering something that people cannot work and provide for themselves. (For more on this, go here: "not a one-man soup kitchen")

I do think there is work in the Christian life, just much different from the work that we see slowly, painfully shaping and reforming the society (kingdoms) around us. And Jesus seems pretty clear in his teaching that the kingdom of God is not a human work, but the perfect work of God, a gift to us.

kenkees · 4 months ago

N.T. Wright also talks about building *for* the Kingdom, as opposed to building the Kingdom itself. He uses the illustration of God as an architect and us as workers forming individual elements of the 'building'. It's not up to us to know how our piece will work with the whole, but rather to simply be obedient to do our part.

paul munn · 4 months ago

I agree about us being obedient in our part. But I'm not so much objecting to the language we use about God's kingdom (such as "building the kingdom") as questioning the reality that we are living or seeking.

If it is something that is built through centuries of human effort and reform, if it continues to drive us relentlessly to work and achieve "the dream" that we (or even God) has, if it exists only "inside" us, or if it is something we see primarily as organized (or "intentional") communities, then I'm wondering if it is really the kingdom that Jesus announced.

I believe he offered (and still offers) us much, much more than that. And we can experience and live it right now.

Markingtime4now · 4 months ago

Very fine work here. One suggestion: Providentially, I was reading today of de Chardin (first time ever...), and contrary to your proposition here, his mystical vision did seem to me to include a sense of God and kingdom already fully arrived, though perhaps not fully revealed or understood due to human limitations. Maybe his was a theology of "uncovering", not so much literally of creating/building, as just owning and growing into our role in the full sweep of creation, and more fully valuing the kingdom and our divine family. Plus the "work" of reflecting kingdom for those who have not noticed its subtleties, and been set free by realizing their purpose in history and creation. But this is just my reading of de Chardin. Perhaps he points toward joy in the work of science and theology and social justice (as opposed to burden/burn-out), but with recognition at all times that it is God who has done/is doing the work. Me and Pierre, we're just shovels.

paul munn · 4 months ago

Hi, Mark (by any chance the Mark I know from Reba Place Church?). Thanks. Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that de Chardin did not have any sense of God's kingdom present. I only meant to use his theories (specifically his "Omega Point" theology, describing an evolutionary development of all things towards God) as a well-known example of the "slow, gradual" school of thought. As I said in the article, I see Jesus announcing his kingdom as immediately present, but then also expecting its final, future revelation in an immediate way, too (not a slow development, or even "uncovering," over centuries). So it is very clearly God's work, God's gift.

I've have appreciated much in de Chardin's writings. And, as for you, keep on shoveling it!

Markingtime4now · 4 months ago

Yes, same Reba Mark, but not tied much to Reba anymore, except by inspiration and indirect means. Had to cut the apron strings after 20+ years, bring some of that teaching out to people beyond the "choir". Sent a private note to you and Heather thru your blog site. Good to catch up with you again...

paul munn · 4 months ago

Thinking more after Mark's comment... it's interesting that God works through gradual, natural processes like evolution, but then it seems easy for people to dismiss God's involvement in those. Ask any atheist scientist. And I believe God also works through political reforms like the abolition of slavery (or, perhaps for us soon, universal health care) but it is also easy to see those simply as human political achievements, messy compromises with big price tags.

But in Jesus' ministry, he seemed to choose methods to announce "the kingdom" in which it was not easy to dismiss God's involvement. Immediate, miraculous methods that astonished people and turned their attention to God. To what God was offering as a gift to them. This seems to be God's main purpose in his kingdom: not just providing a better standard of living for people, but inviting us into the unique, all-fulfilling life of intimacy with God, which can only appear miraculous amid the societies of this world.

I wonder also about "community," which is seen as socially beneficial in general (for example, the variety of co-op organizations, ethnic tribes, farming communes, etc). But these don't necessarily point people towards God. The kingdom of God, however, is something of a strikingly higher order...

Jason Winton · 4 months ago

I came of age as a Christ follower within the Vineyard movement. In our tradition, we talk a lot about the "already/not yet" Kingdom of God (a la Georde Ladd) and in relation, especially, to the gifts of the spirit. Physical healing, in particular, was a focus for our patriarch, John Wimber (the leader for the national Vineyard movement until his death in 1997). Here's a short summary of how he began to question the status quo of church life, which ultimately led him to join others in what we now call the Vineyard:

Shortly after John Wimber became a Christian, he became a voracious Bible reader. The Scriptures excited him. Finally, after weeks of reading about life-transforming miracles in the Bible and attending boring church services, John asked one of the lay leaders, "When do we get to do the stuff?"

"What stuff?" asked the leader. "You know, the stuff here in the Bible," said John. "You know, like stuff Jesus did-raising people from the dead, healing the blind and the paralyzed. You know, that stuff."

"Well, we don't do that anymore," the man said. "You don't? Well what do you do?" asked John.

"What we did this morning," replied the man. In frustration, John responded: "For that I gave up drugs?"

Like so many of us, John was taught by example that the contemporary Christian life was radically disconnected from the power and awesomeness of the Scriptures. Throughout the remainder of his ministry, however, he proved that the disconnection was unnecessary. What follows are some articles, tapes and books written about the kingdom of God, prayer, healing, suffering, and deliverance--in other words, doin' the stuff.

That being said, one of the ways the Vineyard movement has explained the power of physical healings as well as their absence is that the Kingdom of God is already here (therefore, we can ask for and believe for healing to take place) and also "not yet" (therefore, we have an eschatalogical hope for when all healing will take place, even when it doesn't happen now). My question for all of us has to do with this "already/not yet" tension. What would propell us to have faith in following Jesus' example and teachings if the Kingdom of God is available to us immediately, but not always and not necessarily now?

paul munn · 4 months ago

That question, I think, highlights some of the frustrating confusion that the vague "not yet" answer leads us into. I don't hear Jesus ever saying the kingdom (with all its power and freedom and promises) is available to us "not aways and not necessarily now." I hear him saying and demonstrating that it is available to us always and certainly (dependably, faithfully) now.

Not everyone, though, experiences this. Only those who follow Jesus in utter, childlike faith. So the people of the kingdom exist now mixed in with many (the vast majority, usually) who continue to live under the oppression and anxiety and encroaching despair of life in our (or any human) society. What we await expectantly is the full revealing of God's kingdom in which everyone will see God's power and governance and have to accept and submit to it (or be banished from the kingdom).

Now, we still face the sadness of seeing so many around us suffering in confusion and bondage and despair, and the challenge of their threatening or violent responses to us. But God's presence, and so our experience of the kingdom of God, is always and everywhere available to us.

Maybe I should add that physical healing is only one sign of the kingdom, and in my opinion not the most significant (or most life-giving) part. I think Jesus demonstrated that in his shift from primarily a healing ministry to the path of the cross.

Jason Winton · 4 months ago

Could you say more about that last paragraph? Why start with healing, for example? Was it intentional on Jesus' part to start with one and end with the other?

mariakirby · 4 months ago

Even though I've thought quite a bit about what the 'kingdom of God' is, I still have a hard time understanding it, much less defining it. So I find your proposition of 'enlightening' us of misconceptions rather bold.

1. The kingdom of God is coming slowly, gradually. A good Biblical illustration of this is Nebucadnezzer's dream in which Daniel interprets as God's kingdom the rock that is formed out of the mountain and destroys the idol of man's kingdoms in a single blow, replacing man's kingdoms with the rock now become giant mountain of God's kingdom. This illustration includes the already/not yet, the God's kingdom in power now (rolling down the hill) with the future sudden triumph.

2. We are partners with God in the hard work of “building the kingdom of God.” I agree that one of the qualities of the kingdom of God is that it is a gift. However, it is a gift I am called to sacrifice and die for. I find that carrying my cross is hard work. It is a challenge for me to forgive just seven times, not to mention seventy times 7. James indicates that we receive this free gift of God through a faith that is demonstrated by works. Paul mentions many times about the "labor" he went through to help people to faith and guide the new churches. He even instructs Timothy that those who labor like he did should get paid for it.

3. The kingdom of God is present now only “in our hearts.” I would suggest that it is very human oriented to think that God's kingdom does not include the rest of creation which has been present for longer than we have. Creation groans, waiting for our hearts to change and our eyes to be opened to the fullness of God in and through creation. I do not believe that it is only a lack of faith may prevent God's kingdom from becoming real with healings or other kinds of miracles. It seems that part of God's kingdom coming has to do with bearing stripes, wearing a crown of thorns, and carrying a cross. In order to follow Christ in his power, we have to be able to follow him in his humility. Having God in our hearts, empowers us to follow him in our actions.

4. The kingdom of God appears now as distinct, organized communities. When Jesus and John the Baptist announced that the kingdom of God was at hand, they were referring to the person of Christ. Since the Church is the body of Christ and since each church is an organized unit of individuals gathered together to be the body of Christ then the aggregate of all churches are the body of Christ. The fact that the churches have distinctions and differences only illustrates that they are different parts: eyes, ears, hands, feet, and so forth. The world knows we are of the body of Christ by our love for each other, and despite all our disagreements, I would say we do an okay job of loving each other, sometimes better than others.