I think it's funny how worship songs come across, oftentimes, as hyper-sexual.
Jesus, lover of my soul???
Mark Van Steenwyk
· 1 year ago
The original "Jesus lover of my soul" is several hundred years old. I'm all for the careful use of erotic language to talk about our relationship with God. But when it becomes trite and filtered through the narcissistic tendencies of 21st century USA, I get a bit queasy.
Michael Cline
· 1 year ago
I think some of the individulistic songs are ok, especially if they help people stand before God as an individual during worship. What we need is a balance. As usual, it's not either/or here, but both/and. Some songs should be thrown out all together to achieve what you are aiming at, but perhaps some of the older songs we tend to rail on actually do serve a purpose.
The first step would be to use the imagination and create songs in particular contexts rather than always playing the latest Chris Tomlin track or David Crowder rift. These songs are good, but that's not the point. I may be in the minority, but I actually think the last 10 years have brought about a decent change in worship lyrics and emphasis that wasn't there a decade or so ago. But there is still room to grow, and I think it starts with local artists and local church families coming together to create a worship environment/music that is contextual and relevant to their particular fold.
Danny
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the wonderful article. I have a feeling that the rootedness of there being more than just a "personal relationship" between God and us is happening primarily at the academic level. It is being taught by frustrated professors who want their students to understand what the bible actually says. In the American church, where average men and woman gather everyday, most do not have the exegetical tools available to them to understand scripture in the deep way that you have described above. They do have exegetical lenses, they are simply different than the ones that we "learned" students have because we have had the privilege of years and years of theological training in our fields. I have this feeling that there are enough people writing about change (myself included), but the average man or woman who goes to these churches is not surfing the net for good blogs on the subject of reading Jesus Manifesto.
The average man or woman is working, taking care of a family, attempting to do their best to keep a hold on their own spirituality (much less the spirituality of others). When they come together for these "small groups" the Bible study that happens is within their context. They don't have language to describe the word in the beauty and depth that Jason has described above, so what are we supposed to do? If we tried to take these messages into the church, they would probably be shot down by a skeptical elder board or pastor who doesn't want to change from the way things have always been. If we try and introduce all of these new terms that we have learned at seminary or Christian college, we will be accused of invading the sacred world of the church will too much secularized university non-sense that makes the Bible too "heady."
What can we do, then, practically to change the life-blood of the church. Do we change it from the inside? If we cannot change it from the inside, do we leave the established church? If we leave the established church, are we given up on all those people (most over 30) who simply have a different mindset about the bible? Is their mindset wrong? These are all questions that I have no answers to, but I want to start a meaningful dialogue about them.
David
· 1 year ago
i'm struggling with the individualism big time.. it makes picking some music for sundays extremely taxing.
i think i trashed about 15 songs for good in just this week alone.
Michael Cline
· 1 year ago
Danny, not to plug my own writing, but did you check out the piece I did a few weeks back about the "fringe" vs. the "mainstream?" If not, check out the discussion between Mark and myself (mostly, with a few others thrown in as well). We hit on some of the things you are trying to think through and figure out. Of course, we didn't come up with an answer, that would be too easy!
Jason Winton
· 1 year ago
Micheal Cline: Good point about some of the older more individualistic worship songs! Fashionable music, after all, will cost you something (even it gets the label “emergent”). Reminds me of somasoul’s funny piece this week. Have you ever noticed how Catholic hymnals are full of songs and music that cover very broad and rich biblical ground? I went to a spanish mass a few years ago (on Easter no less) and was blown away by the depth and authenticity as they sang about creation, the nations, hope, and justice. Where do you find the best contemporary worship music?
Danny: Do we leave the established church? I’m not going to. At least not yet. Is their mindest wrong? Yes and no…we all are in a way. I just get tired of hearing song after song about me.
Maria Kirby
· 1 year ago
Hey Mark, When you get the editors you want, how about someone for music that could link a good song a week with maybe a critique on the band, song, etc. Some of the music video you've posted, I can't make out the words.
I have been struck in reading the psalms by how much anger and anguish there is. I've never gotten that emotional diversity in a church service. Most of the time worship is considered a "celebration". There have been periods of time in my life where I just couldn't connect with the "happy all the time" fascade that many (particularly immature) Christians feel they need to project. I needed a place I could cry out to God in anger. It seems to me that many of the songs that draw from the psalms kind of pick and choose only the hopeful, joyful refrains. But those joyful refrains are much more meaningful when contrasted with the rough earthy cries of the rest of the psalm.
I know there is a lot more variety in Christian music these days than what I get at Church or on the radio. Is there a good website I can visit to find the variety and depth I'm looking for?
Mark Van Steenwyk
· 1 year ago
Hey Maria. I'll give it some thought.
Interestingly, on Sunday (Palm Sunday), we did singing a bit different. We sung Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" (The song was made popular by Rufus Wainswright's version on the Shrek soundtrack...though Jeff Buckley's version is one of the best songs ever. Serious.)
The emphasis of the evening was that the Triumphal Entry was something of a mockery. We sang this song to express our sense of broken, fickle, failure before the Lord of Song:
I heard there was a secret chord that david played and it pleased the lord but you don't really care for music, do you well it goes like this the fourth, the fifth the minor fall and the major lift the baffled king composing hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
well there was a time when you let me know what's really going on below but now you never show that to me do you but remember when i moved in you and the holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
well, maybe there's a god above but all i've ever learned from love was how to shoot somebody who outdrew you it's not a cry that you hear at night it's not somebody who's seen the light it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
I did my best, it wasn't much I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you And even though It all went wrong I'll stand before the Lord of Song With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
(4x)
Mark Van Steenwyk
· 1 year ago
By the way, you can hear Jeff Buckley's version here:
Seriously. This song (and his song Grace) are amazing.
spiritrax.com
· 1 year ago
I really enjoyed your aritcle. And the posted comments all have valid point. The hyper-sexual thing is pretty clever. To put my two cents in, I believe whatever or however a person is better to understand their relationship with God can't be wrong.
Thanks J, once again you still the heart and mind of us all. Take worship out of the normal Sunday morning services and what do you have. Hopefully some folks out there singing to God in a real way. Not influenced by culture power-points or fancy band settings. Just us sharing to God our love and relationship with him, and sharing of the love that has been poured out, for all those around us to share.
Worship whether us or God focused, is beautiful when your sittin in the jesus center and the homeless gather around to sing some oldies or one maybe they wrote on their own. God always sees the heart. That is where i must daily place myself to be true in my heart of worship. Whether sitting with family friends, strangers or the community at large.
As always we still have a lot to learn. May we always stay "teachable".
Kara Tupy
· 1 year ago
Hey J>>Tim and I led worship at the Jesus Center a few years ago when I still lived in Chico. Remembering back, my experience was much the same. We started playing the songs we usually did when leading worship at a church or youth event, and it just felt like the songs fell flat...not so much with the people...but in my own heart, because they felt so irrelevant. I remember struggling to find a song that "fit."
Also...I can relate to what Darny wrote about the average church-goer and the things on their minds...that feels like my life these days. It just goes to show how different the average church goers life really is from the homeless. Maybe if there were some songs out there that were different, it would connect the two.
On another, but similar note, I've been searching for a church to go to out here in the Twin Cities...and finding it really difficult. Ironically, when we visit a church that sings a song that is familiar to us (i.e. one of the popular songs of the day), it's nice. At the same time, when those songs get sung week after week, they begin to feel boring and shallow. My take is...even if this thing gets figured out on the fringes, its going to take another 30 yrs for it to hit mainstream. And by then, it will be outdated anyway. So what do you do?
All Comments
Jesus, lover of my soul???
The first step would be to use the imagination and create songs in particular contexts rather than always playing the latest Chris Tomlin track or David Crowder rift. These songs are good, but that's not the point. I may be in the minority, but I actually think the last 10 years have brought about a decent change in worship lyrics and emphasis that wasn't there a decade or so ago. But there is still room to grow, and I think it starts with local artists and local church families coming together to create a worship environment/music that is contextual and relevant to their particular fold.
The average man or woman is working, taking care of a family, attempting to do their best to keep a hold on their own spirituality (much less the spirituality of others). When they come together for these "small groups" the Bible study that happens is within their context. They don't have language to describe the word in the beauty and depth that Jason has described above, so what are we supposed to do? If we tried to take these messages into the church, they would probably be shot down by a skeptical elder board or pastor who doesn't want to change from the way things have always been. If we try and introduce all of these new terms that we have learned at seminary or Christian college, we will be accused of invading the sacred world of the church will too much secularized university non-sense that makes the Bible too "heady."
What can we do, then, practically to change the life-blood of the church. Do we change it from the inside? If we cannot change it from the inside, do we leave the established church? If we leave the established church, are we given up on all those people (most over 30) who simply have a different mindset about the bible? Is their mindset wrong? These are all questions that I have no answers to, but I want to start a meaningful dialogue about them.
it makes picking some music for sundays extremely taxing.
i think i trashed about 15 songs for good in just this week alone.
Danny: Do we leave the established church? I’m not going to. At least not yet. Is their mindest wrong? Yes and no…we all are in a way. I just get tired of hearing song after song about me.
When you get the editors you want, how about someone for music that could link a good song a week with maybe a critique on the band, song, etc. Some of the music video you've posted, I can't make out the words.
I have been struck in reading the psalms by how much anger and anguish there is. I've never gotten that emotional diversity in a church service. Most of the time worship is considered a "celebration". There have been periods of time in my life where I just couldn't connect with the "happy all the time" fascade that many (particularly immature) Christians feel they need to project. I needed a place I could cry out to God in anger. It seems to me that many of the songs that draw from the psalms kind of pick and choose only the hopeful, joyful refrains. But those joyful refrains are much more meaningful when contrasted with the rough earthy cries of the rest of the psalm.
I know there is a lot more variety in Christian music these days than what I get at Church or on the radio. Is there a good website I can visit to find the variety and depth I'm looking for?
Interestingly, on Sunday (Palm Sunday), we did singing a bit different. We sung Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" (The song was made popular by Rufus Wainswright's version on the Shrek soundtrack...though Jeff Buckley's version is one of the best songs ever. Serious.)
The emphasis of the evening was that the Triumphal Entry was something of a mockery. We sang this song to express our sense of broken, fickle, failure before the Lord of Song:
I heard there was a secret chord
that david played and it pleased the lord
but you don't really care for music, do you
well it goes like this the fourth, the fifth
the minor fall and the major lift
the baffled king composing hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
well there was a time when you let me know
what's really going on below
but now you never show that to me do you
but remember when i moved in you
and the holy dove was moving too
and every breath we drew was hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
well, maybe there's a god above
but all i've ever learned from love
was how to shoot somebody who outdrew you
it's not a cry that you hear at night
it's not somebody who's seen the light
it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah
hallelujah (4x)
I did my best, it wasn't much
I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you
And even though
It all went wrong
I'll stand before the Lord of Song
With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
(4x)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AratTMGrHaQ
Seriously. This song (and his song Grace) are amazing.
Royality free music at http://www.productiontrax.com
Royality Free Music
Accompaniment Backing Tracks at http://www.spiritrax.com
Accompaniment Backing Tracks
Worship whether us or God focused, is beautiful when your sittin in the jesus center and the homeless gather around to sing some oldies or one maybe they wrote on their own. God always sees the heart. That is where i must daily place myself to be true in my heart of worship. Whether sitting with family friends, strangers or the community at large.
As always we still have a lot to learn. May we always stay "teachable".
Also...I can relate to what Darny wrote about the average church-goer and the things on their minds...that feels like my life these days. It just goes to show how different the average church goers life really is from the homeless. Maybe if there were some songs out there that were different, it would connect the two.
On another, but similar note, I've been searching for a church to go to out here in the Twin Cities...and finding it really difficult. Ironically, when we visit a church that sings a song that is familiar to us (i.e. one of the popular songs of the day), it's nice. At the same time, when those songs get sung week after week, they begin to feel boring and shallow. My take is...even if this thing gets figured out on the fringes, its going to take another 30 yrs for it to hit mainstream. And by then, it will be outdated anyway. So what do you do?