the Jesus Manifesto - Latest Comments in Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

BDRhodes — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:13:04 -0000

That's an important point that I'd never considered.

But it'll probably only be the reality of the American church for the first few years of the energy crisis, when gasoline is increasingly expensive but still readily available. As the years progress, it just won't be available as much to non-industrial, non-governmental consumers -- including the rich. Sooner or later, there may still be enclaves along class lines, but perhaps not nearly as sharp as you're saying.

Time will tell!

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

Maria Kirby — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:20:48 -0000

If we want people to learn to get along in churches, probably the easiest place to start discipling is in the home. So many people have difficulty getting along with their spouses, not to mention other relations. There's a lot we need to relearn about anger management, communication, and negotiation in addition to forgiveness and love.

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

littlefights — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:37:09 -0000

I agree with Hew that there are many who are FIRMLY entrenched in their denominational identity and who will not easily depart.

On the other side of this issue, yes, the poor and lower middle class will certainly be affected by higher gas prices, but do we honestly think the upper class/wealthy will see high gas prices as a serious impediment to church shopping? I tend to doubt it, so while I think there is some hope that peak oil may produce a certain degree of mixing and heterogeneity (compared to their previous congregational demographics), I think it may also result in another class-based split. Wealthy, largely white churches and poorer, mixed-race churches.

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

hewhocutsdown — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:45:55 -0000

Personally, I think you're severely underestimating the ties that some people hold to their denominations.

Secondly, the assumption of 'attending churches' versus simply birthing them in one another's homes may not pan out.

But I get the gist of it, and I'm with you. We are looking for a way to celebrate and love with our neighbors, of disparate faith walks and streams, ages, nationalities, economic statuses. It's scary as hell and takes a lot longer. But I think it's worth it.

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

BDRhodes — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:16:13 -0000

Maria,

I agree, many will probably drop out altogether! And many of the "I-always-wanted-to-be-a-pastor-and-know-whats-best" types will probably start house churches of the more socially-militant/conservative flavor.

Yet the drop-outs only underscores my point -- easy mobility has created a nightmarishly thin and shallow kind of spiritual formation, wherein we would rather "do our own thing" than learn how to get along with people who are stridently different from us. Retreat is FAR easier a road than reconciliation. Fear, not forgiving fellowship, is the path of least resistance -- as far as our fleshly resistance goes. Peak oil will call the question: how deep has our discipleship been in the church of North America during the Age of Carbonation?

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

emajyn — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:38:51 -0000

Hey Brandon. Thought provoking article I can relate to being car-less and formerly searching for an eccessial home. I seriously thought of becoming catholic, after walking to the perish 15blocks away to worship for a period of time. Now I ride my bike a bit further. To reverently disregard your writings to an extent, I would love to connect with the old growth community sometime. Being in the same city and loosely having a group of friends wanting to move the same direction of communal living, it would be beneficial I think. Neo monastics and the like, very well could be the new weak disciples meeting in the upper rooms, waiting for a pentecostal wind of empowerment to burn in them the freshness of the gospel's post carbon implications. I want to humbly learn from your communities journey. get at me. emajyn@gmail.com

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

Maria Kirby — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:25:46 -0000

It might be nice if we learned to get along together, but that is very hard work. I suspect that people would prefer to not go to church at all than go to a church where they have major disagreements or have been seriously offended. The more entrepreneurial types might try and start their own house church which would probably make the fragmentation worse rather lessen it. We need people to prayerfully consider what structures would bring grace and freedom to Christ's body as a whole, so that small communities would desire to be part of larger communities.

I have been very concerned at the general lack of understanding (much less the practice) of forgiveness, justice, and grace. These things are so much apart of Christianity's core, but it seems as though so few people (including pastors) really understand them. I doubt that we will be able to overcome very many of our divisions without persistent practice of those attributes.

From a personal perspective, I appreciate the fact that there are so many flowers in the garden. I'm also glad that as a yucca I don't have to live in a tulip bed.

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

Jonathan — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:33:22 -0000

Hey, I think about this on the community level a lot but as a Church community it is very important to talk about this. How will the end of oil change our communities and our Church communities? In revolutionary ways. It will redefine neighborhoods.

To be honest, I'm really kinda looking forward to it.

Re: Denominational Pentecost in a Post-Carbon World

dareyoutomove — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:40:02 -0000

Great article. Made me think a lot. The sad thing is that people would skip a meal a day if they had to in order to attend a church that was more like what they wanted. In the coming years we'll see if this prediction comes true. I think the message to us all is that we need to engage in our local churches instead of going to the next church down the road every time there is something we don't like.