hehehe, nice, and a very original history. just loved it.
Rafi Cate
· 4 months ago
Appropriate that an Eastern Orthodox icon heads the story. The holy fool is an Orthodox tradition; in Russia they often wore little clothing even in winter. They would challenge those in power face to face, calling them to live the faith in which they were chrismated. A few actually did. But putting God ahead of state intrigue and power, or a life of wealth and privilege, or personal fame and reputation, was then, as it is now, a sign of madness. Our real faith is in an invisible, omniscient economic power. Its rules interpreted for us by mostly older white men who tell us that deviation is dangerous and that the chosen are rewarded. Losers are subject to the hell of economic excommuniation, aka unemployment. Which is real enough to keep most of us working people docile. And alienated from each other. But in our hearts, we still ask: What is the meaning of our lives? To buy more (if our falling wages still allow that) or to be more? To live in fear? Or to live in the kingdom of God which is all around us-- if we but look? I am a mechanic with a theology degree. I know how to make repairs. But I also know what I see even in the simplest of parts in a man-made engine. The field of energy in which molecules of metals are held also holds us. We fools feel it.
paul munn
· 4 months ago
For some reason, when you mentioned Russia and the Orthodox tradition of the holy fool, I thought of this passage from Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov (where the buffoonish Fyodor Pavlovitch meets the famous monk, the elder Zosima):
"Great elder, speak! Do I annoy you by my vivacity?" Fyodor Pavlovitch cried suddenly, clutching the arms of his chair in both hands, as though ready to leap up from it if the answer were unfavourable.
"I earnestly beg you, too, not to disturb yourself, and not to be uneasy," the elder said impressively. "Do not trouble. Make yourself quite at home. And, above all, do not be so ashamed of yourself, for that is at the root of it all."
"Quite at home? To be my natural self? Oh, that is much too much, but I accept it with grateful joy. Do you know, blessed father, you'd better not invite me to be my natural self. Don't risk it.... I will not go so far as that myself. I warn you for your own sake. Well, the rest is still plunged in the mists of uncertainty, though there are people who'd be pleased to describe me for you. I mean that for you, Pyotr Alexandrovitch. But as for you, holy being, let me tell you, I am brimming over with ecstasy."
He got up, and throwing up his hands, declaimed, "Blessed be the womb that bare thee, and the paps that gave thee suck—the paps especially!"
There is, I think, a pun in the name "Pavlovich." It's not a proper patronymic. Which is a sort of middle name derived from the first name of your father. Instead, it implies that Fyodor is the son of Pavlov. As we all are in a way from the conditioning by unending advertisements urging constant consumption. Buy without ceasing. Bros. Karamazov is my favorite book; its words capture the ecstasy of spiritual joy. Without denying the harshness of life. Per the Elder Zosima: "Kiss the earth, and love it, tirelessly, insatiably, love all men, love all things... do not be ashamed... it is a gift from God." Theosis, or divinization, is in Orthodox understanding not just about the transformation of humans. It is to include all of creation-- plankton to planets-- a great ecological ethics, and our responsibility. Dostoevsky said beauty will save the world. We Orthodox understand that. It is our contribution to Christian expression. Icons, liturgy, music, writing. But we're not so good at prophetic witness, in particular a gift of Evangelicals. But we have exceptions. An example is Fr. Alexander Men, martyred in 1990. He was ethnically Jewish, had a science degree, ministered to famous Russian dissidents but was also the pastor of a small working class parish. As he said in his book Christianity for the 21st Century: "... the contradictions between the different Christian denominations...are not a sign of decay and breakdown, but rather manifestations of parts of the whole, the united whole which we have to reach at greater depth... the profound source of spiritual life will nourish not only individual souls or small groups in their interior lives, but will also go beyond the limits of the merely personal and become for us a social force, a force in society, a force that will help us live in the world, and bring to the world our value as human beings and the light which each of us has been given." " When you do good, when you love, when you contemplate beauty, when you feel the fullness of life, the kingdom of God is already touching you." It is the nature of creation fully realized.
Ted Troxell
· 4 months ago
My knowledge of such things is limited, and I don't think this takes away from your further observations, but isn't "Pavlovich" an extant Russian name (and not one simply made up by Dostoevsky)? I assumed it to be derived from "Pavel."
paul munn
· 4 months ago
I love The Brothers Karamazov too. I've read it at least seven times. And I appreciate Zosima's love of life and creation (especially in contrast to the asceticism of the "old school" monks). I can see reflections of Jesus' feasting, his "gluttonly" and "winebibing."
But I'm not sure where "beauty will save the world" comes from. Do you see that message in Jesus' teaching or life?
And Zosima's embrace of everything (which would hardly cause much real opposition, it seems) even sounds somewhat opposed to the "offense" of Jesus' harder teachings and prophetic anger. Reflected, for example, in the line I quoted in the story, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." I'm not sure how that can fit with "beauty will save the world." Any thoughts?
Maybe the biggest question is raised by the experience in Jesus' life that's usually considered central to his "saving the world": his crucifixion. I know some have tried to make it beautiful, gilding it, iconizing it. But the reality seems quite far from anything that could be described as "beauty."
Rafi Cate
· 4 months ago
The beauty in the language of the Beatitudes. What greater love than is there than the crucifixion? Even in the extreme horror, an epiphany then, of beauty.
This is in no way a denial of the harsh prophetic-- as I said, the strength of the Evangelical approach.
I've been unemployed and homeless myself. And I spent 16 years working among low income and mentally ill people. Anger and pain daily. Makes the prophetic very real. Yet beauty and joy were welcome rarities.
I am a very late convert to Christianity; I do not deny that I was suspicious and even contemptuous of the faith for decades. I still do not feel that I fit anywhere easily. But I wanted more than harshness. Those of us with mystical gifts do not deny the prophetic, the immanent. We just emphasize the sense of creation as good, and the experience of connection with the transcendent. The struggle between the mystical and the prophetic dimensions is as old as religion, which contains both.
As for using the words"gilding it..." a rather ugly dismissal. Icons are not just pretty works of art. They are the presense of spiritual reality-- including the prophetic; righteous anger.
I've been reading the posts here for some time. And felt the possibilty of connection to others who, although they approach their faith out of a different context, also understood the terrible impact of misguided materialism on the world. But it feels like I'm not welcome. And I'm not up to defending an entire tradition. So I'll get off of this list. BTW, I'm also transgendered and gay. Which makes it difficult enough to be Christian; I don't need any more pain.
paul munn
· 4 months ago
Hey, easy. No one's attacking you, Rafi. It's difficult to communicate well long distance in print only, so please forgive a poorly chosen word and don't immediately interpret it as a dismissal or personal judgment directed at you.
I just asked a question and you are quite welcome to answer in any way you see fit (or not), and free to come to different conclusions than I do. It's a good thing to reach out for a connection (I did that online years ago, when there were no people around me then with similar views to discuss such things; and some of those connections turned into long term relationships). If you don't give up too quickly you might find something good.
And thanks for sharing more about yourself; it makes it easier to respond well to you. You can read more about me here (if you're interested).
markvans
· 4 months ago
Rafi,
You are certainly welcome here. There are a lot of different perspectives shared here, and yours is a welcome addition. I have a deep respect for Orthodoxy--especially the way of understanding the Triune God, the understanding of salvation as participation in the Divine Nature, and the ability to embrace Mystery.
All Comments
Our real faith is in an invisible, omniscient economic power. Its rules interpreted for us by mostly older white men who tell us that deviation is dangerous and that the chosen are rewarded. Losers are subject to the hell of economic excommuniation, aka unemployment. Which is real enough to keep most of us working people docile. And alienated from each other.
But in our hearts, we still ask: What is the meaning of our lives? To buy more (if our falling wages still allow that) or to be more? To live in fear? Or to live in the kingdom of God which is all around us-- if we but look?
I am a mechanic with a theology degree. I know how to make repairs. But I also know what I see even in the simplest of parts in a man-made engine. The field of energy in which molecules of metals are held also holds us. We fools feel it.
(Fyodor Pavlovitch had a pretty good recall of scripture, didn't he?)
Bros. Karamazov is my favorite book; its words capture the ecstasy of spiritual joy. Without denying the harshness of life. Per the Elder Zosima: "Kiss the earth, and love it, tirelessly, insatiably, love all men, love all things... do not be ashamed... it is a gift from God." Theosis, or divinization, is in Orthodox understanding not just about the transformation of humans. It is to include all of creation-- plankton to planets-- a great ecological ethics, and our responsibility.
Dostoevsky said beauty will save the world. We Orthodox understand that. It is our contribution to Christian expression. Icons, liturgy, music, writing. But we're not so good at prophetic witness, in particular a gift of Evangelicals. But we have exceptions. An example is Fr. Alexander Men, martyred in 1990. He was ethnically Jewish, had a science degree, ministered to famous Russian dissidents but was also the pastor of a small working class parish. As he said in his book Christianity for the 21st Century:
"... the contradictions between the different Christian denominations...are not a sign of decay and breakdown, but rather manifestations of parts of the whole, the united whole which we have to reach at greater depth... the profound source of spiritual life will nourish not only individual souls or small groups in their interior lives, but will also go beyond the limits of the merely personal and become for us a social force, a force in society, a force that will help us live in the world, and bring to the world our value as human beings and the light which each of us has been given." " When you do good, when you love, when you contemplate beauty, when you feel the fullness of life, the kingdom of God is already touching you." It is the nature of creation fully realized.
But I'm not sure where "beauty will save the world" comes from. Do you see that message in Jesus' teaching or life?
And Zosima's embrace of everything (which would hardly cause much real opposition, it seems) even sounds somewhat opposed to the "offense" of Jesus' harder teachings and prophetic anger. Reflected, for example, in the line I quoted in the story, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." I'm not sure how that can fit with "beauty will save the world." Any thoughts?
Maybe the biggest question is raised by the experience in Jesus' life that's usually considered central to his "saving the world": his crucifixion. I know some have tried to make it beautiful, gilding it, iconizing it. But the reality seems quite far from anything that could be described as "beauty."
This is in no way a denial of the harsh prophetic-- as I said, the strength of the Evangelical approach.
I've been unemployed and homeless myself. And I spent 16 years working among low income and mentally ill people. Anger and pain daily. Makes the prophetic very real. Yet beauty and joy were welcome rarities.
I am a very late convert to Christianity; I do not deny that I was suspicious and even contemptuous of the faith for decades. I still do not feel that I fit anywhere easily. But I wanted more than harshness. Those of us with mystical gifts do not deny the prophetic, the immanent. We just emphasize the sense of creation as good, and the experience of connection with the transcendent. The struggle between the mystical and the prophetic dimensions is as old as religion, which contains both.
As for using the words"gilding it..." a rather ugly dismissal. Icons are not just pretty works of art. They are the presense of spiritual reality-- including the prophetic; righteous anger.
I've been reading the posts here for some time. And felt the possibilty of connection to others who, although they approach their faith out of a different context, also understood the terrible impact of misguided materialism on the world. But it feels like I'm not welcome. And I'm not up to defending an entire tradition. So I'll get off of this list. BTW, I'm also transgendered and gay. Which makes it difficult enough to be Christian; I don't need any more pain.
I just asked a question and you are quite welcome to answer in any way you see fit (or not), and free to come to different conclusions than I do. It's a good thing to reach out for a connection (I did that online years ago, when there were no people around me then with similar views to discuss such things; and some of those connections turned into long term relationships). If you don't give up too quickly you might find something good.
And thanks for sharing more about yourself; it makes it easier to respond well to you. You can read more about me here (if you're interested).
You are certainly welcome here. There are a lot of different perspectives shared here, and yours is a welcome addition. I have a deep respect for Orthodoxy--especially the way of understanding the Triune God, the understanding of salvation as participation in the Divine Nature, and the ability to embrace Mystery.