the Jesus Manifesto - Latest Comments in Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

Christopher — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:48:36 -0000

Sorry, I hadn't thought to check the comments on this post until just now. In answer to your questions, BDRhodes, I would say keep asking those sorts of questions. Those questions are complex, difficult to answer, involve prayer and Christian community, and reliance on the Holy Spirit. The questions you asked, and the questions like it, are theological and ethical. Much more difficult to answer, categorically, than "Who should I vote for?"

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

joel — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:42:46 -0000

Why wait for school boards, transportation commitees, city hall, or any other bureaucrat before something is done. If you see something that needs addressing in a Christ-like manner, just do it. I say, "screw the government." Just simply ignore it. To place any hope in it is idolatry.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

pdxfudge — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:13:17 -0000

Someone has said that Bush was easy to dislike and so it was easy for the parishioners of some churches to to speak against the Empire, but what will happen now to the distrust of Empire and the revitalized language of allegiance to Christ alone when the candidate they voted for assumes office?

Good post. It is much appreciated.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

sbjw — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:29:45 -0000

Amen. I look forward to your next installment Christopher and to Mark's and the rest of youall's thoughts on this subject. You say it far better than I have tried to over the years. And you are all younger than I which gives me hope.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

TomDuregger — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:39:30 -0000

Well said Chris, I look forward reading the rest of this article.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

BDRhodes — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:31:16 -0000

D'oh! :) Teach me to blog surf during my lunch break.

Well, I 'spose my ambling questions applies to you, too.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

markvans — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:55:06 -0000

I didn't write this...but perhaps Chris (who wrote it) could respond before I weigh in on your question. :)

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

BDRhodes — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:58:02 -0000

Mark, I agree that democracy has become a religion in and of itself, an American Idol with few competitors. And at that level, I increasingly respect your "no-vote" practice. If democracy weren't so darn idolized in America, or if you were in a less democracy-worshipping country, would you then vote?

This definitely worthy of an entire post, but could you unpack what a "no-vote" theology of church engagement of the state might look like. I mean, is petition-signing okay? School-boards? Would you vote in school board meeting? Transportation planning meetings? City hall meetings? Meeting with legislators, mayors, city councilors, and bureaucrats to advocate on issues of justice? There are far more ways to be political than these sorts of things, for the church of God, and indeed these are the acts that would be on the periphery rather than the center of church political life, but still it's my own conviction that many of these activities are good and cool ways to seek the shalom of our cities (Jer 29) and speak out for those who can't speak for themselves (Pr 31:8).

I acknowledge that this is, like all ethics, far more nuanced than just a quick list of good and bad actions, so what's the steering vision behind whatever degree of engagement you endorse/practice?

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

BDRhodes — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:45:25 -0000

Well said, Thom. I wonder if that's why I sense such restlessness in my own church community about Bible Studies... "not another one, sheesh". I need to learn how to talk about theology in a way that becomes embodied, that incarnates. And maybe we should all start adding new pages to our theology books, sections like "agri-ology" between anthropology and ecclesiology, and "petrol-ology" after (or within) hamartiology.

You've got the wheels a'spinning in my head now. :)

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

edward Skelton — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:24:32 -0000

It is probably worth noting that it was Walter Rauschenbusch's project to Americanize Christianity and Christianize America. And no one's a bigger proponent of the American civil religion than his grandson Richard Rorty.

Re: Pontifex Maximus (Obama’s Religion, pt 1)

Thom — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:34:02 -0000

I think this speaks to the absence of practical theology in the American church. We think we do "theology" when we have Bible study, not when we are buying clothing or walking in the park or helping someone out. Once we realize that everything should have a theology behind it, then our eyes are opened to the competing theologies that have been holding us back, hypnotizing us, and trying to shape us into something other than a Christ follower.