DISQUS

bolinkm · 10 months ago

I've had my own ecclesiological odyssey that has led to my own conviction of hypocrisy. I grew up Lutheran (ELCA), yet never learned of the meanings and reasons why they "do church" the way that they do. I found it hypocritical and empty worship. In college, I was "saved" by God through the work of a great Southern Baptist minister that I still consider my personal pastor today. I've been to Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, UCC, and independent Bible churches. I'm a mut. Over the last few years, though, I became discontent with the attitude that you described above, snubbing our noses at 1700+ years of beautiful church history. Yes, the RC church has had its issues, but what church hasn't (to include the emerging church)? I was convicted by the Holy Spirit that God didn't mess up with the last 2000 years of church history, and our obvious neglect of it is evidence of our own sin. I am now an Anglican priest, evangelical, dispensational, and missionally-minded. I finally feel as though I am where God wants me to be serving Him. Some have questioned my credibility, but I am secure in the guidance of the Spirit. I know that this is not the path God has for everyone, but I have noticed a striking quirk - those connected to the historical church (mostly RC, Anglican, and Orthodox, but also some others to an extent) not only still hold the largest followings worldwide, but are also by and large the most ecumenically-minded. I write this have served in more than a couple different countries and alongside ministers from every denomination and walk of life. This is not an apologetic, just my own experiences and observations.

Joel · 10 months ago

Thank you for your great post.

It is interesting that the authors of the books at the bottom of the Jesus Manifesto page, viz., Wendell Berry, William Stringfellow, Dorothy Day, Jacques Ellul, John Yoder, Daniel Berrigan, Bill Cavanaugh, Oscar Romero, Richard Rohn and others were members of the very Churches so many are fleeing--- .Romero for God's sake was an Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church! And the book on St. Francis!? Francis was Catholic, do was Dorothy Day. Good grief people! And Ecumenism? It is the sin of separating to be "right" that makes it appear to non-Christians that we are divided. The Church, The Body of Christ is NOT divided. We are the ones who try to live as if we were. The whole Church is the Whore of Babylon but nevertheless the mother of us all. Amos tried to life that. We are called to love whores, hypocrites, and live our lives for THEIR sake as Christ did. Lord knows he did not lilve to fulfill himself or his faith or any of the rest of our religious myths. Christ died for his Bride, sinful humanity. It is Holy because He is holy and is One with it, not because it ever was or is or will be holy in itself; it IS One, with all of its members, All, because HE is One, and indeed One with the Father and the Spirit, not because its members have made themselves unified with one another, much less made themselves one with Him. And we are Universal (to use the Latin) or Catholic (to use the Greek) because He accepts and has taken on within Himself all times and all peoples, past present and future, not because we accept one another. The Church is One, Holy, Catholic because it is the Living flesh and blood of Christ here and how today that we share in together or it and our Faith is human religion for self-betterment, and is idolatrous.

mountainguy · 10 months ago

"The whole Church is the Whore of Babylon but nevertheless the mother of us all"

I've always said we are a bunch of motherf#$%&@#rs

XD

Nice post.

andrewtatum · 10 months ago

This post reminds me of a moment in a seminary course called, "Learning Theology with C.S. Lewis." The course was taught by a Lutheran who had recently converted to Roman Catholicism. In the thick of a riveting discussion of the fracturing divisions in the church the professor threw up his hands and yelled, "STOP!" We all turned to look at him and he was silent for a long moment. Then he said in his thick German accent, "The church is not broken! It never has been! It's whole and completely one...IN ROME! Where it has been since Christ, our Lord, gave Peter the keys to the kingdom." He, of course, meant to assert that - although we were at a "mostly orthodox mainline protestant" seminary - the One True Church was the Roman Catholic church. Ever since then I've learned to tread lightly in discussions of the "fractured church" and of "ecumenism." I've flirted with Catholicism but have also found myself drawn to more 'simple / organic' forms of church and, honestly, my preferences change from day-to-day.

I guess what I'm rambling on about (at 3:30am) is that it would be easy for me to dismiss my professor for being "unfair" or "exclusivistic." But I've got to wonder if there's a way forward between these varying "sects" (for that is, in reality, what all denominations really are) of Christianity. Paul was never too keen on sectarianism and Jesus' prayer was that we might all be one but it seems that none of us are speaking the same language. This is really about more than whether or not we're "Post-Constantinian" or "Radical" or "Emergent" - that such words are even possible (along with the ensuing ecclesial fracturing and confusion) is an indication of something else that's at the root of all this. We're simply not speaking the same language. It's becoming increasingly difficult to tell one's faith journey in a way that seeks reconciliation with others when our very language of reconciliation and our very faith journey itself might be an offense to the Other. Honestly, I've got no answers - just questions. But I'm not seeing a way out of this until (in the words of the Methodist liturgy) "Christ comes in his final victory and we feast at his heavenly banquet." Of course, who knows if we'll all be there. Even so, Come Lord Jesus!

Chris · 10 months ago

If I were going to rant I suppose it would logically be about Unitarianism - but it is a long time ago. When I joined the Methodist Church (of Great Britain), my mother (who had never shown much interest in things religious) went into the loft and (it was a hot summers day) emerged with a book which she flung onto the concrete drive) - it was a beautiful edition of the Methodist Hymn Book, with the gold trim. Her parents gave her the book when she was a member of the youth club at Stephen Hill MC. Apparently, an evenagelical minister arrived and the whole youth club walked out and joined the Unity, down the hill. That is where she met my father.

Prior to choosing the Methodist Church, I was much tempted by the Quakers. As a member of the peace movement, I joined Peace Action Newcastle which met in the cellar of the Quaker Meeting House. But for some reason Methodism seemed right and so I became a member. This was all in the seventies.

Today, I'm grateful for what the Methodist Church has to offer. When you're drowning in the sea of life, you're grateful for any piece of wood that drifts past. Just hang on and hope for the best. Over the years I've learned much more about the tradition I belong too. I think it pays to be faithful, as there is always more to learn.

Now I'm an active ecumenist in Britain and it seems the road towards structural unity is coming to an end. Why? Because I suspect the Body of Christ, might need all its parts, however deranged some of us might seem to be, to meet the challenges we have to face. We no longer have the luxury of time to work out who is right.

Maria Kirby · 10 months ago

I am very thankful for the 1700+ variety of Christian practice/belief. Bouquets of roses are nice, but I like a field of wild flowers surrounded by a grove of trees and bushes in bloom better. Paul reminds us that we are not all hands, or feet, or eyes, or ears. We all need each other. It seems that in my Christian walk, I have needed different kinds of churches. Each one grew me in a different way.

The attitude of being "saved out of" something is much like a teenager who is looking to define themselves as different from their parents. With a little more maturity, those Christians will recognize the value of their roots before they saw the Son.

Travis Greene · 10 months ago

Good thoughts. I needed to hear them.

Jenny · 10 months ago

May I recommend a piece by Annie Dillard called "Expedition to the Pole"? Her take on church rocked my world, as did The Apostle (Robert Duvall movie). God can use absolutely anything, who am I to snub it? While the "in-house" debates of Christianity are real, in my opinion, they occupy way to much of our time when there are people all around us who don't know God in any flavor.