the Jesus Manifesto - Latest Comments in The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

stefan — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 03:22:04 -0000

I can't figure out whether or not agree with #10. I like it though. Is this dude an anarchist?

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Luke — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:06:44 -0000

Nagler's UC Berkeley courses on Nonviolence are available for free download:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?...
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?...

I've been listening to them on my iPod and these lectures are awesome.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Casey — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:01:33 -0000

"Somewhere behind every war there are always a few founding lies."

"Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn

"All war is based on deception."
Sun Tzu

Nothing new here, but it is good to remind us of this fact. Remember the Maine!

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

roger Flyer — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:46:56 -0000

Great stuff. you might be interested in a blog called Inhabitatio Dei
Halden Doerge.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

BarryClemson — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:07:07 -0000

#15 "A shooting war is not necessary to overthrow an established power but is used to consolidate the revolution itself", reminds me of the American Revolution. According to one author, the colonists had so defeated the British Governors that even the Governors themselves recognized that no one paid any attention to their orders. What we call the American Revolution is the newly victorious colonists defending themselves against the British Army attempt to conquer them AFTER they had nonviolently beaten the British Governors.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Micael — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:56:52 -0000

Actually, I have written a text called "Early Christian Pacifism and Nonviolence" with qoutes from 11 different early church fathers and has some Bible studies (including Romans 13 and the OT wars). Maybe you want to see it? I can't find your e-mail or something though ("Contact us" and "Submit your article" doesn't work) so if you see this and are interested, contact me on micael@grenholm.net

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Maria Kirby — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:34:24 -0000

"People who go to war start to resemble their enemy." I heard somewhere that the people who annoy us the most are the ones with faults just like ours.

"Once you start the business of killing, you just get “deeper and deeper,” without limits." This is why we have governments and legal systems: to set limits on the business of killing.

"A conflict between a violent and a nonviolent force is a moral argument. If the violent side can provoke the nonviolent side into violence, the violent side has won." I find this comment most interesting. It really starts to make a person think about their definitions and boundaries. At what point does force change from being nonviolent to violent. Is it only physical force that we're trying to set limits on?

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Micael — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:42:59 -0000

I agree with all the points I understand (well, I'm Swedish), and especially nr 9, 17 and 18 hit my heart. Indeed, our mission is to create peace, but what have we become if we use war to bring peace? What happened to the almighty God whom nothing is impossible for? And indeed, it is those who have lived through war that really knows how it is, and therefore peace actvists are among them (after nearly every war USA has performed, groups like "Vietnamn veterans against the war" and "Iraq veterans against the war" occours...) And indeed, fear is the thing that make people tp kill each other. Therefore Jesus said that we don't have anything to be afraid of (Luke 12). We have a Father who cares for us and free us from death. And notice that just before Jesus teaches us His golden rula, He talks about that God always hear our prayer and give us what we pray for... a trust in God and nonviolence comes together.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Mark T — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:31:19 -0000

Thanks for this list, it sounds like a great book.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Charles H. Featherstone — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:33:18 -0000

Yeah, number 10 -- The problem lies not in the nature of man but in the nature of power -- is a problem, because there is no power without human beings, human desire and human sinfulness.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

hewhocutsdown — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:42:26 -0000

"A shooting war is not necessary to overthrow an established power but is used to consolidate the revolution itself."

This one's quite intriguing....very few things garner unity amongst rebels like a common enemy.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

jonathanbrink — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:59:36 -0000

"There is no proactive word for nonviolence."

Ugh...it's called love.

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

anita — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:28:28 -0000

I would definitely disagree with number 10 as well.
Power has no soul, man does.

But the rest of the point are wonderful!

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

Nicholas Perks — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:49:46 -0000

I find the list true to my own understanding of human history and violent confrontation, but I would disagree with number ten for sure. It is most definitly in the nature of man to abuse power.

Nicholas Perks

Re: The 25 Lessons of Nonviolence

hewhocutsdown — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:43:00 -0000

Violence is a virus that infects and takes over.

This one seems a bit too vague.

I'm enjoying/processing the rest of them though.