I don't think the service-at-home idea will fly. People WANT to get dressed up in their church clothes. Besides, how else will Northwestern and Bethel freshmen find their future spouses?
Chris
· 4 years ago
I don't think the service-at-home idea will fly. People WANT to get dressed up in their church clothes. Besides, how else will Northwestern and Bethel freshmen find their future spouses?
Van S
· 4 years ago
Touche.
Van S
· 4 years ago
Touche.
pat k
· 4 years ago
Shoot - I feel so bad for laughing so hard at this. Must put on the hair shirt again tonight...
This is one of the top ten funny things I've read on the internet.
pat k
· 4 years ago
Shoot - I feel so bad for laughing so hard at this. Must put on the hair shirt again tonight...
This is one of the top ten funny things I've read on the internet.
Jeff
· 4 years ago
That's weird, wild stuff. Just when I thought you couldn't reach any higher...
Jeff
· 4 years ago
That's weird, wild stuff. Just when I thought you couldn't reach any higher...
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
So witty and clever...I think. I'm not sure because I'm just one of the dim schlubs that Christ loved and died for. I guess that is what you are trying to communicate? Could you dumb it down for me a bit because I'm not sure if this is just how elitist seminary students communicate the love of God. You might want to add one of the gospels to your own personal reading lists.
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
So witty and clever...I think. I'm not sure because I'm just one of the dim schlubs that Christ loved and died for. I guess that is what you are trying to communicate? Could you dumb it down for me a bit because I'm not sure if this is just how elitist seminary students communicate the love of God. You might want to add one of the gospels to your own personal reading lists.
Van S
· 4 years ago
Hmmm...I think you are hitting below the belt. I think it is fair game to criticize the way that consumerism has taken some of the power away from the Gospel. I didn't call anyone stupid or try to demean anyone in particular, as you have clearly done to me. I think it you asked any one who knows me if I am an elitist seminary type, then they'd tell you I'm not. I never look down on anyone for not having a formal education--the only thing I concern myself with taking shots at are practices in the church that take the focus off of the power of the Gospel to transform lives. And when we package and soften the Gospel to make it more comfortable, to the point of taking the power out of Scripture, then we are doing a bad thing. Would you disagree with that? Please challenge my ideas, don't question my integrity unless you know me and are willing to do it to my face. I'm pretty sure that's in the Bible.
Van S
· 4 years ago
Hmmm...I think you are hitting below the belt. I think it is fair game to criticize the way that consumerism has taken some of the power away from the Gospel. I didn't call anyone stupid or try to demean anyone in particular, as you have clearly done to me. I think it you asked any one who knows me if I am an elitist seminary type, then they'd tell you I'm not. I never look down on anyone for not having a formal education--the only thing I concern myself with taking shots at are practices in the church that take the focus off of the power of the Gospel to transform lives. And when we package and soften the Gospel to make it more comfortable, to the point of taking the power out of Scripture, then we are doing a bad thing. Would you disagree with that? Please challenge my ideas, don't question my integrity unless you know me and are willing to do it to my face. I'm pretty sure that's in the Bible.
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
The main thing that caused me to react so strongly to your post, initially, was how I got there. I was just randomly cruising through blogs and I came across an entry/title to the effect "Just when you thought Evangelicals couldn't get more ridiculous." This blogger linked to your entry and seemed to take it seriously. From his entry he seemed to have had all his preconceptions about Christians confirmed by reading your post. Although your entry was obviously an attempt at humor, you paint "Evangelicals" with the same broad brush that is used by our culture. One cannot help but conclude that the type of Christians you describe are dumb,insincere, shallow, etc. Yes, you point to trends in the church that are disturbing, but how can one not be offended/pained by your characterization if we are all members of the body of Christ. I have trouble getting a hearty guffaw out of your observations.
Admittedly, having been an member of a church based upon one of the mega-church models (Willow Creek), your comments hit a little close to home. I fully recognize that there are numerous flaws with the mega-church trend - particularly as it relates to a marketing aproach to the gospel; however, is it possible that God is still working through these churches despite their flaws? Are there persons of faith (even if weak or immature) in these churches? If so, aren't they bretheren that we are commanded to love, encourage and even rebuke? I think that is in the Bible, but I don't think there is a command to mock. Isn't it elitist to denegrate another group of people because we percieve ourselves to have a deeper understanding?
I have been a consumer Christian who is: more concerned with being entertained than worhiping; more interested in being comfortable than living sacrificially; more interested in being fed than ministering; more influenced by the culture than an influence for Christ within it. I am so grateful that I have a merciful God who did not leave me there, but has called me to know Him more fully and to make Him known. Using the jargon of the times - as a recovering consumer Christian - what do I do with what you posted? Am I supposed to encouraged by the salt you poor into the wound that I look to Christ to heal?
You're right I do not and should not have called you an elitist seminary student...it was knee-jerk response to your post. I do not know you to question your intergrity, but I do challenge what you wrote in this instance and whether it is an effective method of cutting through cultural baggage.
Lastly, I do not find fault with your site. In fact much of what I have read in your other posts I find very interesting/encouraging. I have bookmarked your site and plan to read it periodically.
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
The main thing that caused me to react so strongly to your post, initially, was how I got there. I was just randomly cruising through blogs and I came across an entry/title to the effect "Just when you thought Evangelicals couldn't get more ridiculous." This blogger linked to your entry and seemed to take it seriously. From his entry he seemed to have had all his preconceptions about Christians confirmed by reading your post. Although your entry was obviously an attempt at humor, you paint "Evangelicals" with the same broad brush that is used by our culture. One cannot help but conclude that the type of Christians you describe are dumb,insincere, shallow, etc. Yes, you point to trends in the church that are disturbing, but how can one not be offended/pained by your characterization if we are all members of the body of Christ. I have trouble getting a hearty guffaw out of your observations.
Admittedly, having been an member of a church based upon one of the mega-church models (Willow Creek), your comments hit a little close to home. I fully recognize that there are numerous flaws with the mega-church trend - particularly as it relates to a marketing aproach to the gospel; however, is it possible that God is still working through these churches despite their flaws? Are there persons of faith (even if weak or immature) in these churches? If so, aren't they bretheren that we are commanded to love, encourage and even rebuke? I think that is in the Bible, but I don't think there is a command to mock. Isn't it elitist to denegrate another group of people because we percieve ourselves to have a deeper understanding?
I have been a consumer Christian who is: more concerned with being entertained than worhiping; more interested in being comfortable than living sacrificially; more interested in being fed than ministering; more influenced by the culture than an influence for Christ within it. I am so grateful that I have a merciful God who did not leave me there, but has called me to know Him more fully and to make Him known. Using the jargon of the times - as a recovering consumer Christian - what do I do with what you posted? Am I supposed to encouraged by the salt you poor into the wound that I look to Christ to heal?
You're right I do not and should not have called you an elitist seminary student...it was knee-jerk response to your post. I do not know you to question your intergrity, but I do challenge what you wrote in this instance and whether it is an effective method of cutting through cultural baggage.
Lastly, I do not find fault with your site. In fact much of what I have read in your other posts I find very interesting/encouraging. I have bookmarked your site and plan to read it periodically.
Van S
· 4 years ago
Fair enough. Perhaps I shouldn't use such humor. But I don't believe that I'm mocking evangelicals--only some of our practices. I am an evangelical, and as an insider I see all sorts of practices that are problematic. So I poke fun at them, so that we can realize that the Church is more than the often troublesome practices that we do on a Sunday. God is working in all sorts of flawed churches. I don't completely reject churches like Willow Creek. Instead, I think that God is working, but I see things that get in the way of a better expression of the Gospel. To me, humor is an exceptible form of critique...not because I want to mock, but because I want to tease. Perhaps the line is too fine and I shouldn't engage in teasing?
Van S
· 4 years ago
Fair enough. Perhaps I shouldn't use such humor. But I don't believe that I'm mocking evangelicals--only some of our practices. I am an evangelical, and as an insider I see all sorts of practices that are problematic. So I poke fun at them, so that we can realize that the Church is more than the often troublesome practices that we do on a Sunday. God is working in all sorts of flawed churches. I don't completely reject churches like Willow Creek. Instead, I think that God is working, but I see things that get in the way of a better expression of the Gospel. To me, humor is an exceptible form of critique...not because I want to mock, but because I want to tease. Perhaps the line is too fine and I shouldn't engage in teasing?
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
We have great liberty in Christ and who am I to say what forms of expression are acceptable or not...I guess I was just commenting that in a public forum your humor could be misinterpreted by non-Christians or surly, oversensitive types like me who stumble across it.
Anyway, it seems like the Lord is doing great things in Minneapolis...I hope to visit ther some day. God Bless.
Consumer Christian
· 4 years ago
We have great liberty in Christ and who am I to say what forms of expression are acceptable or not...I guess I was just commenting that in a public forum your humor could be misinterpreted by non-Christians or surly, oversensitive types like me who stumble across it.
Anyway, it seems like the Lord is doing great things in Minneapolis...I hope to visit ther some day. God Bless.
scott
· 4 years ago
Wow, I live in a small town and I've really been thinking about what you said about the eHarmony deal. I think that would be a really cool tool for someone like me. Is that a good thing or bad? I mean if I go to several different churches each sunday i get bombarded with invites and messy lititure.. Wouldn't it be nice to enter my profile and get matched?
scott
· 4 years ago
Wow, I live in a small town and I've really been thinking about what you said about the eHarmony deal. I think that would be a really cool tool for someone like me. Is that a good thing or bad? I mean if I go to several different churches each sunday i get bombarded with invites and messy lititure.. Wouldn't it be nice to enter my profile and get matched?
Chris L.
· 4 years ago
Hey Van,
Interesting post (2-15). I am currently taking a voluntary course, discussing and critiquing the consumer church and its correlation with the racial divide within the church itself.
Paul Metzger, the professor leading the course, brought up an interesting point last week; He said he was often accused of having a sardonic tone within his writing, and concurrently hadn't a clue on how to resolve this tone. I guess a close friend gave some advice that I thought was invaluable. As we know, we are to season our speech (and writing) with grace, and his friend told him the importance of letting the audience feel the emotional strain behind the words. I loved your post and I agree with every idea. Although, I also wanted to hear how it hurts you to see God's people seeking earthly powers and principalities, instead of understanding the power behind God lies in our weakness.
I actually have a book to recommend on the subject: "Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God" by Marva J. Dawn. A great resource for us all to find God; not the god we label all too easily, (such as the clever bumper sticker).
You have a great eye and heart Van.
God Bless,
Chris
Chris L.
· 4 years ago
Hey Van,
Interesting post (2-15). I am currently taking a voluntary course, discussing and critiquing the consumer church and its correlation with the racial divide within the church itself.
Paul Metzger, the professor leading the course, brought up an interesting point last week; He said he was often accused of having a sardonic tone within his writing, and concurrently hadn't a clue on how to resolve this tone. I guess a close friend gave some advice that I thought was invaluable. As we know, we are to season our speech (and writing) with grace, and his friend told him the importance of letting the audience feel the emotional strain behind the words. I loved your post and I agree with every idea. Although, I also wanted to hear how it hurts you to see God's people seeking earthly powers and principalities, instead of understanding the power behind God lies in our weakness.
I actually have a book to recommend on the subject: "Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God" by Marva J. Dawn. A great resource for us all to find God; not the god we label all too easily, (such as the clever bumper sticker).
All Comments
This is one of the top ten funny things I've read on the internet.
This is one of the top ten funny things I've read on the internet.
Admittedly, having been an member of a church based upon one of the mega-church models (Willow Creek), your comments hit a little close to home. I fully recognize that there are numerous flaws with the mega-church trend - particularly as it relates to a marketing aproach to the gospel; however, is it possible that God is still working through these churches despite their flaws? Are there persons of faith (even if weak or immature) in these churches? If so, aren't they bretheren that we are commanded to love, encourage and even rebuke? I think that is in the Bible, but I don't think there is a command to mock. Isn't it elitist to denegrate another group of people because we percieve ourselves to have a deeper understanding?
I have been a consumer Christian who is: more concerned with being entertained than worhiping; more interested in being comfortable than living sacrificially; more interested in being fed than ministering; more influenced by the culture than an influence for Christ within it. I am so grateful that I have a merciful God who did not leave me there, but has called me to know Him more fully and to make Him known.
Using the jargon of the times - as a recovering consumer Christian - what do I do with what you posted? Am I supposed to encouraged by the salt you poor into the wound that I look to Christ to heal?
You're right I do not and should not have called you an elitist seminary student...it was knee-jerk response to your post. I do not know you to question your intergrity, but I do challenge what you wrote in this instance and whether it is an effective method of cutting through cultural baggage.
Lastly, I do not find fault with your site. In fact much of what I have read in your other posts I find very interesting/encouraging. I have bookmarked your site and plan to read it periodically.
Admittedly, having been an member of a church based upon one of the mega-church models (Willow Creek), your comments hit a little close to home. I fully recognize that there are numerous flaws with the mega-church trend - particularly as it relates to a marketing aproach to the gospel; however, is it possible that God is still working through these churches despite their flaws? Are there persons of faith (even if weak or immature) in these churches? If so, aren't they bretheren that we are commanded to love, encourage and even rebuke? I think that is in the Bible, but I don't think there is a command to mock. Isn't it elitist to denegrate another group of people because we percieve ourselves to have a deeper understanding?
I have been a consumer Christian who is: more concerned with being entertained than worhiping; more interested in being comfortable than living sacrificially; more interested in being fed than ministering; more influenced by the culture than an influence for Christ within it. I am so grateful that I have a merciful God who did not leave me there, but has called me to know Him more fully and to make Him known.
Using the jargon of the times - as a recovering consumer Christian - what do I do with what you posted? Am I supposed to encouraged by the salt you poor into the wound that I look to Christ to heal?
You're right I do not and should not have called you an elitist seminary student...it was knee-jerk response to your post. I do not know you to question your intergrity, but I do challenge what you wrote in this instance and whether it is an effective method of cutting through cultural baggage.
Lastly, I do not find fault with your site. In fact much of what I have read in your other posts I find very interesting/encouraging. I have bookmarked your site and plan to read it periodically.
Anyway, it seems like the Lord is doing great things in Minneapolis...I hope to visit ther some day. God Bless.
Anyway, it seems like the Lord is doing great things in Minneapolis...I hope to visit ther some day. God Bless.
Interesting post (2-15). I am currently taking a voluntary course, discussing and critiquing the consumer church and its correlation with the racial divide within the church itself.
Paul Metzger, the professor leading the course, brought up an interesting point last week; He said he was often accused of having a sardonic tone within his writing, and concurrently hadn't a clue on how to resolve this tone. I guess a close friend gave some advice that I thought was invaluable. As we know, we are to season our speech (and writing) with grace, and his friend told him the importance of letting the audience feel the emotional strain behind the words. I loved your post and I agree with every idea. Although, I also wanted to hear how it hurts you to see God's people seeking earthly powers and principalities, instead of understanding the power behind God lies in our weakness.
I actually have a book to recommend on the subject: "Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God" by Marva J. Dawn. A great resource for us all to find God; not the god we label all too easily, (such as the clever bumper sticker).
You have a great eye and heart Van.
God Bless,
Chris
Interesting post (2-15). I am currently taking a voluntary course, discussing and critiquing the consumer church and its correlation with the racial divide within the church itself.
Paul Metzger, the professor leading the course, brought up an interesting point last week; He said he was often accused of having a sardonic tone within his writing, and concurrently hadn't a clue on how to resolve this tone. I guess a close friend gave some advice that I thought was invaluable. As we know, we are to season our speech (and writing) with grace, and his friend told him the importance of letting the audience feel the emotional strain behind the words. I loved your post and I agree with every idea. Although, I also wanted to hear how it hurts you to see God's people seeking earthly powers and principalities, instead of understanding the power behind God lies in our weakness.
I actually have a book to recommend on the subject: "Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God" by Marva J. Dawn. A great resource for us all to find God; not the god we label all too easily, (such as the clever bumper sticker).
You have a great eye and heart Van.
God Bless,
Chris