I have a question regarding "the least" (Matt 25). This seams to be a central text to emerging churches, discovering Jesus in the poor and all that. And I really think we (including myself) have to move in the direction of crossing social and economic boundaries and hanging out with the poor, and my own experience is that God really likes it when we do this. Jesus did it, for sure. But, I also have some doubt about the common interpretation of Matt 25. Is Jesus really talking about all the hungry etc in the world? To me, it seems that Jesus in Matthew identifies himself with, and give the name of "sister"/"brother" only to Jahve´s people. If that is the case, it seems more natural to read Matt 25 as a text about how we relate to each other within God´s people. Of course, this love have to overflow, but I have a hard time viewing every poor man or woman as a "brother"/"sister". I also think that Jesus talks about God´s (worldwide!!!!) family because it corresponds better with 2 Kor 8-9, James and Gal 6:9-10.
I would love to hear your comment on this one, Mark.
Jonas Lundström
· 2 years ago
I have a question regarding "the least" (Matt 25). This seams to be a central text to emerging churches, discovering Jesus in the poor and all that. And I really think we (including myself) have to move in the direction of crossing social and economic boundaries and hanging out with the poor, and my own experience is that God really likes it when we do this. Jesus did it, for sure. But, I also have some doubt about the common interpretation of Matt 25. Is Jesus really talking about all the hungry etc in the world? To me, it seems that Jesus in Matthew identifies himself with, and give the name of "sister"/"brother" only to Jahve´s people. If that is the case, it seems more natural to read Matt 25 as a text about how we relate to each other within God´s people. Of course, this love have to overflow, but I have a hard time viewing every poor man or woman as a "brother"/"sister". I also think that Jesus talks about God´s (worldwide!!!!) family because it corresponds better with 2 Kor 8-9, James and Gal 6:9-10.
I would love to hear your comment on this one, Mark.
Matthew Shedden
· 2 years ago
One might also think of Luke 14:12. Not to rag on soup kitchens because they do tons of great work, but we often do that instead of following the command that lunch and dinners and buffets should not be for the rich, but for the marginalized. For instance, what would it look like if this women and her friends took some of the homeless folk with them to this buffet, or perhaps provided dinner that in their homes for some of them. Soup kitchens are great at creating that safe barrier that allows me to feel like I was involved in helping the poor, without any contact with them. In someways this is counter-incarnation, and often the point of Jesus' parables on the poor the point is a place of contact, more than it being successful. I think we get caught up in the difference it might make for them, rather than the radical difference it might make for us to have contact with people who marginalized. While I agree with Ariah too, in Luke he is eating at a Pharisees House. So I don't Jesus avoided those things, but no matter where he went he brought with him the kingdom, and kingdom ethics that saw a radical transformation of a ritzy charity event might look like; if the homeless where also invited to dine with those in tuxes. Thanks for posting the article, and it was great to hear the conversation.
Matthew Shedden
· 2 years ago
One might also think of Luke 14:12. Not to rag on soup kitchens because they do tons of great work, but we often do that instead of following the command that lunch and dinners and buffets should not be for the rich, but for the marginalized. For instance, what would it look like if this women and her friends took some of the homeless folk with them to this buffet, or perhaps provided dinner that in their homes for some of them. Soup kitchens are great at creating that safe barrier that allows me to feel like I was involved in helping the poor, without any contact with them. In someways this is counter-incarnation, and often the point of Jesus' parables on the poor the point is a place of contact, more than it being successful. I think we get caught up in the difference it might make for them, rather than the radical difference it might make for us to have contact with people who marginalized. While I agree with Ariah too, in Luke he is eating at a Pharisees House. So I don't Jesus avoided those things, but no matter where he went he brought with him the kingdom, and kingdom ethics that saw a radical transformation of a ritzy charity event might look like; if the homeless where also invited to dine with those in tuxes. Thanks for posting the article, and it was great to hear the conversation.
Beth
· 2 years ago
Mark: This post fascinates me and resonates with me. I have been thinking about the issue of "the poor" for several years now. Usually the thoughts and conclusions I reach seem to be quite off-putting to people. I question whether it's "ok" to be rich, in a world where people die in poverty. I see in Scripture that we are commanded over and over again to care for the poor, the orphans, the widows; to seek justice and to love one another as ourselves. If this is so, then how is it right for Western Christians to live nice cushy "American dream" lifestyles? I would love to hear what you think about this (everytime I try to discuss it with fellow Christians, they seem to get offended, and make claims about having the right to have a nice lifestyle, and be rich if they work for it, etc).
Beth
· 2 years ago
Mark: This post fascinates me and resonates with me. I have been thinking about the issue of "the poor" for several years now. Usually the thoughts and conclusions I reach seem to be quite off-putting to people. I question whether it's "ok" to be rich, in a world where people die in poverty. I see in Scripture that we are commanded over and over again to care for the poor, the orphans, the widows; to seek justice and to love one another as ourselves. If this is so, then how is it right for Western Christians to live nice cushy "American dream" lifestyles? I would love to hear what you think about this (everytime I try to discuss it with fellow Christians, they seem to get offended, and make claims about having the right to have a nice lifestyle, and be rich if they work for it, etc).
Chris
· 2 years ago
I agree, Mark, this post brings up some great thoughts and issues. I would briefly take exception Ariah's comment, that Jesus avoided "ritzy dinners." The biblical evidence is to the contrary in my view. The indictment of Jesus' practice of dining with "sinners" by the Pharisees is often taken by us to mean that the "sinners" had committed other sins besides the ones you might expect at a decadent party (gluttony, greed, excess, etc.) That is, the people Jesus was eating with had achieved their sinful status through means other than at the party. I think it's entirely possible that Jesus often ate with people engaged in sinful activity in front of him, which at a party could include that same "mimosa-drinking" activity we all recoiled against in the story you quoted. Just a thought.
Chris
· 2 years ago
I agree, Mark, this post brings up some great thoughts and issues. I would briefly take exception Ariah's comment, that Jesus avoided "ritzy dinners." The biblical evidence is to the contrary in my view. The indictment of Jesus' practice of dining with "sinners" by the Pharisees is often taken by us to mean that the "sinners" had committed other sins besides the ones you might expect at a decadent party (gluttony, greed, excess, etc.) That is, the people Jesus was eating with had achieved their sinful status through means other than at the party. I think it's entirely possible that Jesus often ate with people engaged in sinful activity in front of him, which at a party could include that same "mimosa-drinking" activity we all recoiled against in the story you quoted. Just a thought.
Maria Kirby
· 2 years ago
I personally don't like the concept of charity (dinners or otherwise) or its incarnation as soup kitchen. It smacks of self-righteousness- 'I've gotta help you out because you're not good enough in some way or doing things the right way'. While it may be true that those who are in need of charity are there because of poor choices on their part. Its also true that for the grace of God there go I. Fortunately, I did not experience the full consequences for the mistakes I made. If we're going to have a soup kitchen I would prefer it to be of the stone soup variety. (Maybe some are more familiar with nail soup instead.) It would not be unreasonable to ask persons to bring $1 worth of their favorite vegetables (or meat). $1 would buy two pounds of carrots, or potatoes, or a pound of beans. If the host facility would provide a hot plate, a big pot, water, utensils, cutting boards, a way to wash the vegetables, spices, disposable dishes, and supervision (like what spices to add and collecting utensils back again), then those who attend can contribute to their own meal. They can prepare the vegetable they brought and add it to the pot. And while everyone waits for the food to cook, there can be games, songs, story telling, maybe even a movie. And I would be very surprised if there weren't leftovers. A stone soup kitchen levels the differences between those who have and those who have not. And the sharing time while waiting for the meal makes the community that we desire in Christ Jesus. Those on the bottom have lost their self esteem, their desire for life, their hope. If we can enable them to help themselves, we do them a much better service. When homeless people contribute as much to their meal as any of the rest of the attendees it levels the playing field. Instead of communicating the message 'be like me', we would be able to more clearly communicate the message 'be like Jesus', who was by the way homeless.
Maria Kirby
· 2 years ago
I personally don't like the concept of charity (dinners or otherwise) or its incarnation as soup kitchen. It smacks of self-righteousness- 'I've gotta help you out because you're not good enough in some way or doing things the right way'. While it may be true that those who are in need of charity are there because of poor choices on their part. Its also true that for the grace of God there go I. Fortunately, I did not experience the full consequences for the mistakes I made. If we're going to have a soup kitchen I would prefer it to be of the stone soup variety. (Maybe some are more familiar with nail soup instead.) It would not be unreasonable to ask persons to bring $1 worth of their favorite vegetables (or meat). $1 would buy two pounds of carrots, or potatoes, or a pound of beans. If the host facility would provide a hot plate, a big pot, water, utensils, cutting boards, a way to wash the vegetables, spices, disposable dishes, and supervision (like what spices to add and collecting utensils back again), then those who attend can contribute to their own meal. They can prepare the vegetable they brought and add it to the pot. And while everyone waits for the food to cook, there can be games, songs, story telling, maybe even a movie. And I would be very surprised if there weren't leftovers. A stone soup kitchen levels the differences between those who have and those who have not. And the sharing time while waiting for the meal makes the community that we desire in Christ Jesus. Those on the bottom have lost their self esteem, their desire for life, their hope. If we can enable them to help themselves, we do them a much better service. When homeless people contribute as much to their meal as any of the rest of the attendees it levels the playing field. Instead of communicating the message 'be like me', we would be able to more clearly communicate the message 'be like Jesus', who was by the way homeless.
Ariah Fine
· 2 years ago
Points well taken from the others comments. What I meant to imply by the 'ritzy' dinners comment was in connection with the type of superior elitist dining that seemed to be occurring in the original story. Jesus certainly dined with the elitist crowd, but I think he did it in a way that clearly conveyed he was not a part of that crowd.
Points well taken from the others comments. What I meant to imply by the 'ritzy' dinners comment was in connection with the type of superior elitist dining that seemed to be occurring in the original story. Jesus certainly dined with the elitist crowd, but I think he did it in a way that clearly conveyed he was not a part of that crowd.
Pan American walking adventure Jesus sent me My name is Chuck Hernandez, I am an American born in Arizona raised in California. I am planning a walking trip from the Tijuana, San Diego Border down hwy 1 And the Pan-American hwy to the tip of South America,
Along the way I will stop at the poorest sections I can find and will document daily on what I see
I am seeking sponsors and volunteers to join me in this once in a lifetime adventure
Sponsors would be required to pay for shelter along the way and necessary supplies such as: • Lap top • Satellite global phone • Ipod
Goal is to seek out orphan homes, dump sites, slums where the poorest of the poor live, to offer assistants in what ever measure is necessary
Every day if possible a report of the trip would be sent back to the church asking for relief of shoes, clothing, medicines,
For every mile walked I ask that you donate 5 pair of shoes or clothing (Used) or medicine and food.
For myself I ask nothing, I am self supporting
I am hoping to find one volunteer with a van, jeep or truck to carry necessary supplies to and from stop to stop
If you feel the call of Jesus Christ your savor, here is your chance to go global
• With the reports sent back you will have an inside look of the conditions these poor people are living in; thus you will have a chance of possibly expanding your church to this part of the world • The trip will cover a daily max walking distance of 25 miles • Between cities will camp out along the sides of roads • At our destination hoping to find free food and shelter
Volunteers can drop out at any time
Trip expected to take years
Benefit of trip is that any member can document trip and can sell story to syndicates etc.
I will be leaving soon and would ask you to make up your minds quickly
If you are unable to commit yourselves at this time you will be able to contact me by email if you change your minds
All Comments
I would love to hear your comment on this one, Mark.
I would love to hear your comment on this one, Mark.
Thanks for posting the article, and it was great to hear the conversation.
Thanks for posting the article, and it was great to hear the conversation.
This post fascinates me and resonates with me. I have been thinking about the issue of "the poor" for several years now. Usually the thoughts and conclusions I reach seem to be quite off-putting to people. I question whether it's "ok" to be rich, in a world where people die in poverty. I see in Scripture that we are commanded over and over again to care for the poor, the orphans, the widows; to seek justice and to love one another as ourselves. If this is so, then how is it right for Western Christians to live nice cushy "American dream" lifestyles? I would love to hear what you think about this (everytime I try to discuss it with fellow Christians, they seem to get offended, and make claims about having the right to have a nice lifestyle, and be rich if they work for it, etc).
This post fascinates me and resonates with me. I have been thinking about the issue of "the poor" for several years now. Usually the thoughts and conclusions I reach seem to be quite off-putting to people. I question whether it's "ok" to be rich, in a world where people die in poverty. I see in Scripture that we are commanded over and over again to care for the poor, the orphans, the widows; to seek justice and to love one another as ourselves. If this is so, then how is it right for Western Christians to live nice cushy "American dream" lifestyles? I would love to hear what you think about this (everytime I try to discuss it with fellow Christians, they seem to get offended, and make claims about having the right to have a nice lifestyle, and be rich if they work for it, etc).
In response to Jonas, here's something I wrote a while back:
http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2006/11/27/least-...
In response to Jonas, here's something I wrote a while back:
http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2006/11/27/least-...
Jesus sent me
My name is Chuck Hernandez, I am an American born in Arizona raised in California.
I am planning a walking trip from the Tijuana, San Diego Border down hwy 1
And the Pan-American hwy to the tip of South America,
Along the way I will stop at the poorest sections I can find and will document daily on what I see
I am seeking sponsors and volunteers to join me in this once in a lifetime adventure
Sponsors would be required to pay for shelter along the way and necessary supplies such as:
• Lap top
• Satellite global phone
• Ipod
Goal is to seek out orphan homes, dump sites, slums where the poorest of the poor live, to offer assistants in what ever measure is necessary
Every day if possible a report of the trip would be sent back to the church asking for relief of shoes, clothing, medicines,
For every mile walked I ask that you donate 5 pair of shoes or clothing (Used) or medicine and food.
For myself I ask nothing, I am self supporting
I am hoping to find one volunteer with a van, jeep or truck to carry necessary supplies to and from stop to stop
If you feel the call of Jesus Christ your savor, here is your chance to go global
• With the reports sent back you will have an inside look of the conditions these poor people are living in; thus you will have a chance of possibly expanding your church to this part of the world
• The trip will cover a daily max walking distance of 25 miles
• Between cities will camp out along the sides of roads
• At our destination hoping to find free food and shelter
Volunteers can drop out at any time
Trip expected to take years
Benefit of trip is that any member can document trip and can sell story to syndicates etc.
I will be leaving soon and would ask you to make up your minds quickly
If you are unable to commit yourselves at this time you will be able to contact me by email if you change your minds
God bless you
Chuck Hernandez