Great post, Mark. While many do argue that socioeconomic rifts based on class/race are not their fault, if we take on a Biblical worldview, we will note that when Jews celebrate the passover meals they imagined themselves actually back in Egypt---remembering oppression. I think your remembrance here is a stark prophetic reminder to many huge churches that pride comes before the fall.
somasoul
· 1 year ago
A lot better than the *#&^@&# flame wars I've been involved in lately on the same subject.
markvans
· 1 year ago
Flame wars? I'm not sure what that means, somasoul...could you elaborate?
somasoul
· 1 year ago
Sure, I blogged about how Advocacy Groups are Dumb on Young.AnabaptistRadicals.org. I used the NAACP as an example. The comments section quickly delved into a war about racism and how all whites are "white supremacists".
It got kinda ugly.
jason
· 1 year ago
Great post that covers a lot of the same stuff going on in my head and life
Michael Cline
· 1 year ago
I read your post but didn't want to touch it unless I could log in under an enemies alias--there was no where for those comments to go but towards ugliness. I'm not saying you are a white supremacist or even that the point of your post was untrue, but after reading a few other posts on there and knowing the kind of place YAR has been in the past, I knew that was going to go down.
Michael Cline
· 1 year ago
The last few posts over at YAR have forced me to remove it from my blogroll. Not my cup of tea and the rhetoric needs a healthy dose of civility.
somasoul
· 1 year ago
Yeah, YAR can be a weird place. There, if I don't admit to being a "White Supremacist" I am viewed upon with scorn. It went down hill quickly. My attempts to explain were cast off and I was vilified further for trying to explain my standpoint. (Now there's a post about white males being.......something or other)
I get that we've come to this point in history with slaves. And war. And genocide. I get it. Really. But so has every other culture on the face of this planet. We just had badder assed weapons then those unforntunate other cultures 200 years ago.
eliacin
· 1 year ago
Mark, as a brown brother I want to applaud your honesty and openness.
By the way just like in Ezekiel, I can hear the rumble of the drums, the songs and the dance of the bones coming back with life.
Dave
· 1 year ago
Personally, I enjoy my status as a privileged white male. My status was evident with the fine single wide trailers I grew up in, the dirt floors and lack of running water in one of the house we lived in, my fine community college education, the fact that I didn't own a car that was less than ten years old until I hit my thirties...
When a White person prospers, he had it all handed to him. When he fails, it was his own fault. He was lazy, stupid, or any other derogatory adjective. When a "oppressed minority" fails, it was the white mans fault.
markvans
· 1 year ago
Things can be generally true without being specifically true. You can struggle to rise out of white-trashness in a society of white privilege. I can acknowledge the overall trend that benefits whites over other groups without taking away from the struggles and problems of individual whites.
Some of this stuff is dependent upon where you grow up and other things. I have to recognize, that as much as I've found success in life through my own efforts, that the system favors my whiteness. And my maleness.
JMorrow
· 1 year ago
Brave and honest post Mark. I'm a newcomer to this blog, but have been genuinely impressed by the level of discussion. As an African/mixed American, I can say its helpful when people understand their own privileges, the bones of others that we, or others, have piled to ascend to highest political, economic or social tier. While European privilege will get you exceptionally far in most situations, any social group is culpable because Power is a diverse and fluid asset in our world. I certainly have privileges others of my own ethnicity don't have. I feel very uncomfortable with receiving Affirmative Action for difficulties I haven't really had to overcome. And I've known and grown up around whites who deal with the same issues that Dave presents.
I think part of the Christian response to this issue is in repudiating what needs to be left in the past, and the willful sharing of what has been brought into the present. Rather than relying on or relishing in its earthly inheritance, the Church needs to fully own its heavenly inheritance. Owning it would seem to involve a eagerness or thirst for sharing resources and rewriting the rules of giving and receiving, in ways that might be foolishly bold to the societies we inhabit.
I think its also helpful to know that the kind of solidarity, which I believe you are rightly encouraging, with those who suffer from your privilege doesn't mean not being yourself or 'going native.' It means being willing to share a piece of yourself and accept a piece of another. It is playing Adam to Eve, taking out your own rib so that it someone else may receive the gift of abundant life. It's kind of like what third culture people do.
Tanden
· 1 year ago
Interesting Blog, Mark.
I am currently on a trip with bethel students visiting the civil rights sites in the south. as we have been going we are discussing and processing together. I am so thankful for my brothers and sisters of color who are showing me my white privilage. I am been facing these issues for the last 2 years as we live in north minneapolis (68% african-american) but I am still amazed at how often i don't realize my privilage or how painful my privilage is to others. I would encourage all to really listen to a person of color story, but as you do be ready to face so evil and painful stuff that is in you.
mountainguy
· 1 year ago
Great post. I live in a mountain (in geomorphological terms) and the social mountain I belong to (I'm not rich, but I have studied a career and I'm not starving) has been built over the bones of others. Over the bones of indigenous tribes (mainly "chibchas"), over the bones of afro-descendants, over the bones of all those farmers who have been displaced from their crops (and it seems they won't be back for a long time), over the bones of workers...
Maria Kirby
· 1 year ago
It's good to be aware of what privileges you inherit, because with great privilege comes great responsibility. I don't have a problem with people who have a lot of privileges or money, I have a problem with the entitlement attitude, that somehow we deserve the privileges we have. That somehow all these privileges are there for my personal enjoyment. I admire the eighteenth and nineteenth century Lords, who used their wealth to afford time to acquire knowledge of science and further scientific knowledge. This was at a time when scientists couldn't apply for government grants for research.
I recognize how much work it is to make the most use of or benefit the most people with the resources we have. I am continually convicted about what I waste. There is so much I need to give away because I do not have the time or the energy to manage the resources God has already given me. Too bad we don't use Aesop's fables in church. The dog in the manger lesson is a good compliment to Biblical criticisms of greed and its commendations to be generous. It seems like even if I give away something I think I might need in the future, God provides what I need when the time arrives.
jurisnaturalist
· 1 year ago
While the YAR thread has encouraged people to identify themselves according to what privileges they enjoy, and it is a good thing to recognize that we are privileged, I think more can be done by identifying the sources of privilege and questioning their legitimacy. Legal privileges are based on arbitrary distinctions upheld by force. In other words, they are the product of the state. Where land was taken from Native Americans by force, Europeans were acting just as pagan as the Indians. When Africans were enslaved and held in bondage, Europeans worshiped a false god, one that they fashioned in their own image, instead of recognizing the image of God in their fellow man. This is the root of the state, and its purpose, to create distinctions from differences, to create and worship false gods of our own choosing, and to legitimize force by some against others. As Christians, it is important that we move down off the mountain. That is, we must renounce any unjust privileges we enjoy. (I am reminded of Alan Paton's "Cry, the Beloved Country" and how the white farmer reached out and down to the township, even though it was his son who was killed.) But we must also work to level the land, to dismantle the mountain. Not to practice return of the land to certain groups, which punishes innocent descendants, but to eliminate the legal distinctions which maintain privileges and exercise force against innocents. This can only mean elimination of the machine which generates these privileges, and exists primarily to create distinctions and privileges, the state. Nathanael Snow ndsnow@gmail.com
Tanden
· 1 year ago
jurisnaturalist, we need to deeply question where we really are "innocent descendants". I grow up on a farm in Iowa and i believe that a lot of what i gained through that wealth is not innocent even though we did not particiapte directly in the taking of that land. As whites we need to really look hard at our lives and start doing down the hard road of confession. The confession idea is not mine but it is coming from an African-American brother of mine that is entering into conversation with me.
somasoul
· 1 year ago
Tanden,
There is no one innocent. Everyone on this planet resides on piece of dirt that was fought over and people were killed over.
Pointing fingers is useless.
Tanden
· 1 year ago
I beleive that if healing is going to happen, then i need to confess my part and admit what part i played.
Dave
· 1 year ago
I think the whole idea of 'race' is racism. I prefer to judge, and be judged, on character. The mere discussion of 'oppression' and 'repentance' does nothing to forward anybody. All it does is allow people to remain victims. As long as people are making an issue of it, it's going to be a problem. Recently we've seen examples in the media of churches that preach adherence to race rather that Christ. Whether it's White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, what ever, the Supremacy of Christ and Christian character should be first and foremost. Perhaps I'm naive? I just really get irritated by folks who think we owe something to somebody because of what somebody did hundreds of years ago, and more angry at those who think they are owed something. Today is the day we live in, with one eye on the future.
Michael Cline
· 1 year ago
I'm not so sure time is as linear as we make it out to be. I mean, we certainly experience "today" as if there was no far off "yesterday," but that doesn't mean that the past doesn't circle around to effecting today. The "somebody" who screwed up hundreds of years ago is often someone I'm connected to on some level, even if it is only as part of the "great cloud of witness" like Hebrews talks about. I'm not so sure we can separate the sins of the present and the sins of the past so easily. But it's a hard topic Dave. And I appreciate your honesty
markvans
· 1 year ago
Hey Dave. I'll agree. The concept of "race" is racist. But the term was originally created as a means of keeping certain folks down, not in trying to topple the "man."
Let's put the language of race aside and talk generally here. We live in such a world where the sins of the fathers is visited to the following generations. The past shapes the present. We shouldn't use the past as a tool in simply casting blame or trapping people in a cycle of hopelessness. But to act as though the past doesn't shape our present is not only unhelpful, it is profoundly unbiblical.
When we come to Christ, the dividing walls fall. And we, the followers of Christ, embrace one another as brothers and sisters. But any glance around the world shows us that while our kinship is secured, it doesn't really play itself out.
We live in a world divided by all sorts of walls. I agree that you and I as white dudes shouldn't be held liable for the acts of of some other white dudes in the past. But neither can I act as though we all, each human being in the world, enters the world with a clean slate. We are all born in certain places with certain cultures and certain struggles.
If we cut off the past from our understanding of why the world sucks so bad, then I have to look at Africa and its problems and the US with its success and assume that Africans are worse people than Americans. After all, we're born with a clean slate, right? I don't think so. And I don't think that you're saying that. But what you're saying comes close.
Leaving the realm of nations for a moment, and peering into the worldwide family we call the "church," I am left with a certain number of realities:
1) Some Christians are prosperous and esteemed. 2) Other Christians are suffering and treated poorly. 3) Most of the time, these Christians don't find themselves in a place of prosperity or suffering purely by their own merit (though that certainly can play a role). 4) Those in different situations tended to have inherited their situations, for the most part.. Sure, a low-income person in North America may have to work hard to become Middle class, but even a low-income person looks like a King to the average person in Madagascar or Sri Lanka or Peru. There really isn't too much mobility for the vast majority of people in the world...especially among the bottom 50%. 5) The New Testament TENDS to promote an economics of Jubilee...where the ones with much share with the ones with little. 6) The Bible TENDS to assume this economics of Jubilee regardless of the personal culpability of the ones with much, or the righteousness of the ones with little.
What we do with these realities makes all the difference. If the knee-jerk liberal response is to want to create a class war because of these six statements, the knee-jerk conservative response is to find ways to embrace the status quo. In Christ, we should move beyond both of these in order to seek ways that we can express our shared kinship in Christ. And we should also, to the watching world, invite all people into that kinship.
Tanden
· 1 year ago
I think it is interesting that you are more angry with the ones who have been wronged then you are with the ones that did the wrong.
I had 5 people of color read your blog and they think that you need to be welcomed into a conversation with a person of color.
Joseph
· 1 year ago
I'd agree with alot of that assessment Mark. Race as a category is a problem because of the limitations it places on human identity. But also the racialized past is not divorced from the present and there is no blank slate. Put another way, "inheritance" is a normal part of life. If we can inherit a family heirloom or family business, if we can inherit genes which give us green eyes or make us prone to cancer, if we can inherit the legacy of the Saints, or without ever striving for it the Grace of Salvation, then it seems to me that we can also inherit the consequences of past sin. The tragedy of various forms of oppression is that they have been sanctioned and committed by the Church.
I regard it as part of my "kinship in Christ" to be part of righting the wrongs. I regard it as my joyful vocation in Christ to be about redeeming the past, like the rest of creation. If we want to be judged on our own merits and not follow in the mistakes of our forebears we must remember the past. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I've learned during my brief time in ministry that much trust is gained in the willingness to grieve with others for the wrongs of the past, whether we were the source of the pain or not. Only then can we trust one another to walk into the future, the inheritance that Christ has given us.
toddh
· 1 year ago
I think small steps are good. Sometimes that's all a person can do is take small steps. And the process is going to look different for everyone depending on their own unique situation. I guess the point is to be looking for what the next step might be for you, and trying to connect with others who are on the same journey.
Dave
· 1 year ago
I happen to have friends 'of color'. One is a talented musician who has quit going to church because the black churches tell him he is a victim, and the white churches he's gone to bend over to constantly fawn over him: Repenting for the past, talking about 'diversity' now that they had their token black person. He wants to be treated like a Christian, like a man, not a poor victimized black.
To quote MLK: The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and controversy.
So, do you make the stand on what has been done wrong, or do you 'man up'? Do you let life pass you by, or fall to show up, because your waiting for someone to come along and...what, give you a free ride? Or do you forgive and move on? If I waited for the people who have done me wrong to come around and 'repent', I'd have never grown as a Christian.
Dave
· 1 year ago
Mark, I totally agree with the statements made here, and don't endorse a 'I got mine, now you get your's' attitude. I think the the Church has paid a lot of lip service to the idea of justice. There has been a lot of misguided attempts at 'reconciliation. Most of it has been to appease peoples guilt for the prosperity they have horded. The 'system' isn't set up to recognize concepts such as jubilee, and I don't believe that we as Christians are to be rooted to the system. We have a responsibility to live as Christ, and that applies to the prosperous and the poor. While hoarding wealth and privilege is wrong, living in bitterness, jealousy, and resentment is as well. So to the 'rich' I say 'spread the wealth': to the poor I say don't demand it.
Ron
· 1 year ago
There is certainly a whole lot of truth in what you say, Dave. But it doesn't contain all the truth. I'd really like to hear how you reconcile what you are saying (which is true as far as it goes) with the six things markvans shared above.
To be honest, I think what you are saying comes off as a bit caloused.
Let me make an analogy. Let me say my grandfather killed your grandparents and then took over your farm, forcing your father and his family to make it on their own.
The farm passes to my father, and then to me. And let's assume that the farm is worth millions. Do you or your family have any claim? If so, when do we draw the line that says that descendants have no claim on any of that wealth?
Let us take it a step further. Let us say that you go to church with me. I am the farm owner. And let us say that because of the wrong done to your grandfather, your father's weakness and sin grabbed a hold of him and he became an alcoholic. And let us say that that resulted in a shitty upbringing for you to the extent that you had the deck stacked against you?
What are the obligations I have to you? Which are based upon the wrongs of the past? Which are based upon my kinship to you now as a fellow Christian in the present? Which are based upon common decency?
My hope is that this analogy will help to get some clarity on the issue. Maybe not much, but hopefully some.
Is there a place for the Bill Cosby-esque message of: "Don't stay a victim; take a hold of the situation and make it better for yourself?" Yes. There is. But that message isn't the whole story. And, I'm not trying to pick on you, but it doesn't mean a lot coming from you. Your statements tend towards justifying your views and defending yourself. Not once have you seemed to recognize anything worthwhile in anything else anyone has said in this whole conversation. That is, by definition, "knee-jerk." There is wisdom in what you say, but it isn't the full wisdom. One can realize taht there is more at play than a person's character. The Bible is chock-filled with all sorts of stories where the descendants pay for the sins of the ancestor. Nations are wiped out. Sin comes to fruit. Debts are collected.
Where is the balance between personal responsibility and a recognition that we all enter into the world with baggage that we did not choose for ourselves?
Tanden
· 1 year ago
I really don't know what the MLK quote has to do with what you are saying.
I live in a nieghborhood where the average family of 3 lives on $13,000 or less a year. so these issues are not just some issue to me but they are peronal and real. It is not about us wanting a free ride but us wanting those who have to do the right thing.
And to be honest with you, as you continue to tell us to just work harder to just move on, we will move on, we will grow, we will continue to love each other and try to make ends meet. the question for those who have is where they are going to grow and start doing the right thing.
Joel
· 1 year ago
I hesitated to post anything here for a while because this is a sensitive subject. But... here it goes.
Just a little background about myself first so you all can see the position I am coming from. I am white. But I did not grow up with everything just handed to me. I grew up eating govt. cheese and wearing 2nd hand clothing because we couldn't afford better. I never was able to attend any college to get a degree. Even community college was out of my reach. I have also spent a number of years living in a foreign country where whites (all foreigners really) were discriminated against. It was perfectly legal there to discriminate against foreigners.
Now, having said that, I want to leave the issue of race behind us. If we are christians, we should look upon each other in a Christ-like way. That means that we are simply brothers and sisters, regardless of the color of our skin. To accept anything less is wrong. I read a lot of talk in the posts here about fault and guilt. We have to remember that we all have been forgiven because Christ took our punishment. Once again, to accept anything less is wrong.
Now, we need to talk a bit about responsibility. We all have a responsibility to help each other and ease each others burdens. This is a two way street. Those who have much have a responsibility to help those who have little. But on the same token, a person who has little may also be able to ease the burdens of one who has much. We all have gifts that we are expected to use to help each other out in times of need, regardless of the position that society has put us in.
One final point... We need to be content with our position, regardless of what that position is. This may seem to be a bitter pill for some, but it is the truth. Whatever our position, be that one of prosperity or one of poverty, God has put us there for a reason. We should be content to be where God wants us to be. God has put each one of us in the place where He knows we can do the most good. To reject the position He has put us in is to reject His plan for our lives. Some who are rich will become poor. Some who are poor will become rich. God's plan for us is ever changing. We just have to remember that God blesses us all and He blesses with more than simply material and worldly possesions. Many of His greatest gifts to us have no monetary value.
SaraHarding
· 1 year ago
I totally agree, Joel. I think the more we make an issue of racial/ethnic divisions, the worse the tensions between them become. I wanted to comment on that great satire about the church "Not in Virginia", too, which is along the same lines. I live in South Carolina (though I grew up in the North), a state that is still recovering in some areas from the awful crimes of the War of Northern Aggression. Slavery was a terrible evil, but the war was more about expanding the empire of America than anything else, and most of the victims here were not slave owners, but poor farmers. There are still old families who carry a lot of anger. But most of the people have moved on, and don't look at me funnily for having a Yankee accent. And in everyday public life, I see blacks and whites interacting and intermingling as if there were no differences between them. I mentioned that I was of both white and Native American lineage. I am also the direct product of a union between a northern and southern family. Perhaps, though, I am more a product of an identity and faith where race and ethnicity are rendered irrelevant, and the past is forgiven and forgotten in a love that covers over a multitude of wrongs.
Dave
· 1 year ago
I a very real way, that happen to me. My family comes from Scotland where back in the late 1700's, the nobility gathered up thousands, put them on ships and scattered them all over the world. It was called the "Clearances". People where grabbed off the streets and forced onto ships with the clothes they had on their backs. Families torn apart, their home burnt, their possessions taken. On the other side on the family, the Irish. Much of the same type of treatment, and discriminated against when the came here to the states. They where called "The niggers of the north".
I don't feel defensive. My thoughts on this are long thought out. The acts of repentance required are of the class warfare variety, but of individuals and Christian communities making commitments to be Christlike.
Dave
· 1 year ago
Doing the 'right thing' is the key. People are all "Down With Wal-Mart", but the real hope for change is in the board of directors hearts, not laws. Instead of picketing, we should pray for them and continue to live Christ before them.
Those who have need a change of heart. Period. You can't force them to change. Same with those who are 'down and out'.
I have a friend from Mexico who is a pastor of a Church in Washington state. He taught me that spiritual well being has nothing to do with money, status, jobs...I learned to be happy (joyous even) while working in a saw mill for 'the man'. It was dirty, dangerous work with no benefits in a poor, depressed town filled with a few rich people who ran the politics of the community and were set on making sure that nobody prospered except them. If somebody wanted to open a business, they'd make it impossible to do it. If it was a good idea, they would steal it. They all went to the same church!
But Raul, who also worked at the saw mill, and an illegal immigrant to boot, invited me into his home, prayed for me when I had pneumonia and couldn't afford to go to the hospital (I was healed, by the way)...He told me in Mexico you either had faith, or people died.
I know poverty. I know oppression. I've lived on the wrong side of the tracks. I also know that pulling yourself up by your boot straps isn't the answer as well. The answer is Christ: Living Him, Breathing Him. I'm probably too simplistic for this discussion because I see Jesus as the Answer for everything.
Maria Kirby
· 1 year ago
I wanted to point out that William Wilburforce could not have eliminated slave trade without his privilege position, which I'm sure had its fair share of bones.
There have been land reallocation policies in Africa, where the land was taken away from the white "colonists" and given back to the native tribes, which actually caused more suffering for the Africans than if there had been no "justice". The persons who received the land did not know how to make it productive which resulted in famine and economic collapse. We cannot support our current population on the agricultural practices of a pre-European era.
It seems to me that the vast majority of "ministry" to the poor gives the gospel of capitalism, or is an avenue where those who have can show how much more they have than those who have not. St Francis is a personal hero to me. He brought the message of joy in Jesus to the poor because he was poor. There wasn't any double message like "you can be happy in Jesus if you give your heart to him AND GET A JOB". I think capitalism is the way the economy works, but its not the same thing as the gospel message.
If you want your church to be culturally diverse, then you have to be pro-active about it. You have to play culturally diverse music, invite culturally diverse speakers, have culturally diverse art, be willing to periodically change the format of the service, serve culturally diverse food at church functions. Even doing all those things won't make you culturally diverse, but it opens the doors to seeing and experiencing life in a different way. It makes for a welcoming environment for those who are "different" to fit in. We all ache to belong. It is easier to belong when are differences are celebrated.
mountainguy
· 1 year ago
I like this post, mainly the last paragraph. When you want others to live "something", you should live this "something". And having a more open mind (what doesn't mean "heresy") is an important way to share our faith.
Joseph
· 1 year ago
Maria,
I like where your comments are going. The privileges we have can serve as gifts if we allow them to do so. The biblical story of Ester is a good example of this as well as Wilberforce. Privilege can also be a curse as well as a gift if it is a zero sum game in which someone else has to needlessly suffer or have their opportunities limited for the sake of your gain or inheritance. The Israelite prophets are continually speaking to this, and its I believe the reason behind Mark's original post.
As a Christian, I'm always weary of the ways in which political powers institute reconciliation in broken societies, often the measures regress into a series of "paybacks" I think Christians involved in development work with poor throughout the globe have to say on the one hand, we can't simply return to the pre-industrial past, but on the other hand, we can't do things as they would be done in Europe or the US. You can't xerox development or reconciliation, rather it has to be a contextual process that gives the people you work with dignity, and value in their own culture.
As for cultural diversity in the Western Church, having engaged in some of that ministry I think the first step before offering things which "appeal" to different cultural groups is to learn about their stories and ask them about their needs and desires. There is so much assumption that goes on about how to engage with or reconcile with different cultural groups. It's often based on anecdotal information from the few people we know, and then projected over the entire group. Listening, I believe is the first prescription for dealing with the Mountain of Bones.
jeremy vh
· 1 year ago
I think the real key is starting with your neighbors. I'm reminded of the story Jesus told when he was faced with the very slick question, "who is my neighbor" in response to "love your neighbor in the same way that you love yourself." He told a story about a Samaritan—an outcast in Jewish society—who leaned over to help a Jew who was hurt on the road. Why? Because he was there, and the man needed help.
Mark, you are absolutely right, that the tendency is to pick up and "rush off to the brown parts of a city." And there's nothing wrong with that, but I would argue that we are called to simply treat everyone we meet with the kind of gentleness, mercy, and love that Jesus has shown us. And short of that, we should be willing to give them what we are willing to give ourselves. If we do that—and I'm not positive that we can in this world, but we should try for it with everything we've got—i really believe all the rest of this just falls away.
All Comments
It got kinda ugly.
I get that we've come to this point in history with slaves. And war. And genocide. I get it. Really. But so has every other culture on the face of this planet. We just had badder assed weapons then those unforntunate other cultures 200 years ago.
By the way just like in Ezekiel, I can hear the rumble of the drums, the songs and the dance of the bones coming back with life.
When a White person prospers, he had it all handed to him. When he fails, it was his own fault. He was lazy, stupid, or any other derogatory adjective. When a "oppressed minority" fails, it was the white mans fault.
Some of this stuff is dependent upon where you grow up and other things. I have to recognize, that as much as I've found success in life through my own efforts, that the system favors my whiteness. And my maleness.
I think part of the Christian response to this issue is in repudiating what needs to be left in the past, and the willful sharing of what has been brought into the present. Rather than relying on or relishing in its earthly inheritance, the Church needs to fully own its heavenly inheritance. Owning it would seem to involve a eagerness or thirst for sharing resources and rewriting the rules of giving and receiving, in ways that might be foolishly bold to the societies we inhabit.
I think its also helpful to know that the kind of solidarity, which I believe you are rightly encouraging, with those who suffer from your privilege doesn't mean not being yourself or 'going native.' It means being willing to share a piece of yourself and accept a piece of another. It is playing Adam to Eve, taking out your own rib so that it someone else may receive the gift of abundant life. It's kind of like what third culture people do.
I am currently on a trip with bethel students visiting the civil rights sites in the south. as we have been going we are discussing and processing together. I am so thankful for my brothers and sisters of color who are showing me my white privilage. I am been facing these issues for the last 2 years as we live in north minneapolis (68% african-american) but I am still amazed at how often i don't realize my privilage or how painful my privilage is to others. I would encourage all to really listen to a person of color story, but as you do be ready to face so evil and painful stuff that is in you.
I recognize how much work it is to make the most use of or benefit the most people with the resources we have. I am continually convicted about what I waste. There is so much I need to give away because I do not have the time or the energy to manage the resources God has already given me. Too bad we don't use Aesop's fables in church. The dog in the manger lesson is a good compliment to Biblical criticisms of greed and its commendations to be generous. It seems like even if I give away something I think I might need in the future, God provides what I need when the time arrives.
Legal privileges are based on arbitrary distinctions upheld by force. In other words, they are the product of the state. Where land was taken from Native Americans by force, Europeans were acting just as pagan as the Indians. When Africans were enslaved and held in bondage, Europeans worshiped a false god, one that they fashioned in their own image, instead of recognizing the image of God in their fellow man. This is the root of the state, and its purpose, to create distinctions from differences, to create and worship false gods of our own choosing, and to legitimize force by some against others.
As Christians, it is important that we move down off the mountain. That is, we must renounce any unjust privileges we enjoy. (I am reminded of Alan Paton's "Cry, the Beloved Country" and how the white farmer reached out and down to the township, even though it was his son who was killed.) But we must also work to level the land, to dismantle the mountain. Not to practice return of the land to certain groups, which punishes innocent descendants, but to eliminate the legal distinctions which maintain privileges and exercise force against innocents. This can only mean elimination of the machine which generates these privileges, and exists primarily to create distinctions and privileges, the state.
Nathanael Snow
ndsnow@gmail.com
There is no one innocent. Everyone on this planet resides on piece of dirt that was fought over and people were killed over.
Pointing fingers is useless.
Let's put the language of race aside and talk generally here. We live in such a world where the sins of the fathers is visited to the following generations. The past shapes the present. We shouldn't use the past as a tool in simply casting blame or trapping people in a cycle of hopelessness. But to act as though the past doesn't shape our present is not only unhelpful, it is profoundly unbiblical.
When we come to Christ, the dividing walls fall. And we, the followers of Christ, embrace one another as brothers and sisters. But any glance around the world shows us that while our kinship is secured, it doesn't really play itself out.
We live in a world divided by all sorts of walls. I agree that you and I as white dudes shouldn't be held liable for the acts of of some other white dudes in the past. But neither can I act as though we all, each human being in the world, enters the world with a clean slate. We are all born in certain places with certain cultures and certain struggles.
If we cut off the past from our understanding of why the world sucks so bad, then I have to look at Africa and its problems and the US with its success and assume that Africans are worse people than Americans. After all, we're born with a clean slate, right? I don't think so. And I don't think that you're saying that. But what you're saying comes close.
Leaving the realm of nations for a moment, and peering into the worldwide family we call the "church," I am left with a certain number of realities:
1) Some Christians are prosperous and esteemed.
2) Other Christians are suffering and treated poorly.
3) Most of the time, these Christians don't find themselves in a place of prosperity or suffering purely by their own merit (though that certainly can play a role).
4) Those in different situations tended to have inherited their situations, for the most part.. Sure, a low-income person in North America may have to work hard to become Middle class, but even a low-income person looks like a King to the average person in Madagascar or Sri Lanka or Peru. There really isn't too much mobility for the vast majority of people in the world...especially among the bottom 50%.
5) The New Testament TENDS to promote an economics of Jubilee...where the ones with much share with the ones with little.
6) The Bible TENDS to assume this economics of Jubilee regardless of the personal culpability of the ones with much, or the righteousness of the ones with little.
What we do with these realities makes all the difference. If the knee-jerk liberal response is to want to create a class war because of these six statements, the knee-jerk conservative response is to find ways to embrace the status quo. In Christ, we should move beyond both of these in order to seek ways that we can express our shared kinship in Christ. And we should also, to the watching world, invite all people into that kinship.
I had 5 people of color read your blog and they think that you need to be welcomed into a conversation with a person of color.
I regard it as part of my "kinship in Christ" to be part of righting the wrongs. I regard it as my joyful vocation in Christ to be about redeeming the past, like the rest of creation. If we want to be judged on our own merits and not follow in the mistakes of our forebears we must remember the past. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I've learned during my brief time in ministry that much trust is gained in the willingness to grieve with others for the wrongs of the past, whether we were the source of the pain or not. Only then can we trust one another to walk into the future, the inheritance that Christ has given us.
To quote MLK: The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and controversy.
So, do you make the stand on what has been done wrong, or do you 'man up'? Do you let life pass you by, or fall to show up, because your waiting for someone to come along and...what, give you a free ride? Or do you forgive and move on? If I waited for the people who have done me wrong to come around and 'repent', I'd have never grown as a Christian.
I totally agree with the statements made here, and don't endorse a 'I got mine, now you get your's' attitude. I think the the Church has paid a lot of lip service to the idea of justice. There has been a lot of misguided attempts at 'reconciliation. Most of it has been to appease peoples guilt for the prosperity they have horded. The 'system' isn't set up to recognize concepts such as jubilee, and I don't believe that we as Christians are to be rooted to the system. We have a responsibility to live as Christ, and that applies to the prosperous and the poor. While hoarding wealth and privilege is wrong, living in bitterness, jealousy, and resentment is as well. So to the 'rich' I say 'spread the wealth': to the poor I say don't demand it.
To be honest, I think what you are saying comes off as a bit caloused.
Let me make an analogy. Let me say my grandfather killed your grandparents and then took over your farm, forcing your father and his family to make it on their own.
The farm passes to my father, and then to me. And let's assume that the farm is worth millions. Do you or your family have any claim? If so, when do we draw the line that says that descendants have no claim on any of that wealth?
Let us take it a step further. Let us say that you go to church with me. I am the farm owner. And let us say that because of the wrong done to your grandfather, your father's weakness and sin grabbed a hold of him and he became an alcoholic. And let us say that that resulted in a shitty upbringing for you to the extent that you had the deck stacked against you?
What are the obligations I have to you? Which are based upon the wrongs of the past? Which are based upon my kinship to you now as a fellow Christian in the present? Which are based upon common decency?
My hope is that this analogy will help to get some clarity on the issue. Maybe not much, but hopefully some.
Is there a place for the Bill Cosby-esque message of: "Don't stay a victim; take a hold of the situation and make it better for yourself?" Yes. There is. But that message isn't the whole story. And, I'm not trying to pick on you, but it doesn't mean a lot coming from you. Your statements tend towards justifying your views and defending yourself. Not once have you seemed to recognize anything worthwhile in anything else anyone has said in this whole conversation. That is, by definition, "knee-jerk." There is wisdom in what you say, but it isn't the full wisdom. One can realize taht there is more at play than a person's character. The Bible is chock-filled with all sorts of stories where the descendants pay for the sins of the ancestor. Nations are wiped out. Sin comes to fruit. Debts are collected.
Where is the balance between personal responsibility and a recognition that we all enter into the world with baggage that we did not choose for ourselves?
I live in a nieghborhood where the average family of 3 lives on $13,000 or less a year. so these issues are not just some issue to me but they are peronal and real. It is not about us wanting a free ride but us wanting those who have to do the right thing.
And to be honest with you, as you continue to tell us to just work harder to just move on, we will move on, we will grow, we will continue to love each other and try to make ends meet. the question for those who have is where they are going to grow and start doing the right thing.
Just a little background about myself first so you all can see the position I am coming from. I am white. But I did not grow up with everything just handed to me. I grew up eating govt. cheese and wearing 2nd hand clothing because we couldn't afford better. I never was able to attend any college to get a degree. Even community college was out of my reach. I have also spent a number of years living in a foreign country where whites (all foreigners really) were discriminated against. It was perfectly legal there to discriminate against foreigners.
Now, having said that, I want to leave the issue of race behind us. If we are christians, we should look upon each other in a Christ-like way. That means that we are simply brothers and sisters, regardless of the color of our skin. To accept anything less is wrong. I read a lot of talk in the posts here about fault and guilt. We have to remember that we all have been forgiven because Christ took our punishment. Once again, to accept anything less is wrong.
Now, we need to talk a bit about responsibility. We all have a responsibility to help each other and ease each others burdens. This is a two way street. Those who have much have a responsibility to help those who have little. But on the same token, a person who has little may also be able to ease the burdens of one who has much. We all have gifts that we are expected to use to help each other out in times of need, regardless of the position that society has put us in.
One final point... We need to be content with our position, regardless of what that position is. This may seem to be a bitter pill for some, but it is the truth. Whatever our position, be that one of prosperity or one of poverty, God has put us there for a reason. We should be content to be where God wants us to be. God has put each one of us in the place where He knows we can do the most good. To reject the position He has put us in is to reject His plan for our lives. Some who are rich will become poor. Some who are poor will become rich. God's plan for us is ever changing. We just have to remember that God blesses us all and He blesses with more than simply material and worldly possesions. Many of His greatest gifts to us have no monetary value.
I don't feel defensive. My thoughts on this are long thought out. The acts of repentance required are of the class warfare variety, but of individuals and Christian communities making commitments to be Christlike.
Those who have need a change of heart. Period. You can't force them to change. Same with those who are 'down and out'.
I have a friend from Mexico who is a pastor of a Church in Washington state. He taught me that spiritual well being has nothing to do with money, status, jobs...I learned to be happy (joyous even) while working in a saw mill for 'the man'. It was dirty, dangerous work with no benefits in a poor, depressed town filled with a few rich people who ran the politics of the community and were set on making sure that nobody prospered except them. If somebody wanted to open a business, they'd make it impossible to do it. If it was a good idea, they would steal it. They all went to the same church!
But Raul, who also worked at the saw mill, and an illegal immigrant to boot, invited me into his home, prayed for me when I had pneumonia and couldn't afford to go to the hospital (I was healed, by the way)...He told me in Mexico you either had faith, or people died.
I know poverty. I know oppression. I've lived on the wrong side of the tracks. I also know that pulling yourself up by your boot straps isn't the answer as well. The answer is Christ: Living Him, Breathing Him. I'm probably too simplistic for this discussion because I see Jesus as the Answer for everything.
There have been land reallocation policies in Africa, where the land was taken away from the white "colonists" and given back to the native tribes, which actually caused more suffering for the Africans than if there had been no "justice". The persons who received the land did not know how to make it productive which resulted in famine and economic collapse. We cannot support our current population on the agricultural practices of a pre-European era.
It seems to me that the vast majority of "ministry" to the poor gives the gospel of capitalism, or is an avenue where those who have can show how much more they have than those who have not. St Francis is a personal hero to me. He brought the message of joy in Jesus to the poor because he was poor. There wasn't any double message like "you can be happy in Jesus if you give your heart to him AND GET A JOB". I think capitalism is the way the economy works, but its not the same thing as the gospel message.
If you want your church to be culturally diverse, then you have to be pro-active about it. You have to play culturally diverse music, invite culturally diverse speakers, have culturally diverse art, be willing to periodically change the format of the service, serve culturally diverse food at church functions. Even doing all those things won't make you culturally diverse, but it opens the doors to seeing and experiencing life in a different way. It makes for a welcoming environment for those who are "different" to fit in. We all ache to belong. It is easier to belong when are differences are celebrated.
I like where your comments are going. The privileges we have can serve as gifts if we allow them to do so. The biblical story of Ester is a good example of this as well as Wilberforce. Privilege can also be a curse as well as a gift if it is a zero sum game in which someone else has to needlessly suffer or have their opportunities limited for the sake of your gain or inheritance. The Israelite prophets are continually speaking to this, and its I believe the reason behind Mark's original post.
As a Christian, I'm always weary of the ways in which political powers institute reconciliation in broken societies, often the measures regress into a series of "paybacks" I think Christians involved in development work with poor throughout the globe have to say on the one hand, we can't simply return to the pre-industrial past, but on the other hand, we can't do things as they would be done in Europe or the US. You can't xerox development or reconciliation, rather it has to be a contextual process that gives the people you work with dignity, and value in their own culture.
As for cultural diversity in the Western Church, having engaged in some of that ministry I think the first step before offering things which "appeal" to different cultural groups is to learn about their stories and ask them about their needs and desires. There is so much assumption that goes on about how to engage with or reconcile with different cultural groups. It's often based on anecdotal information from the few people we know, and then projected over the entire group. Listening, I believe is the first prescription for dealing with the Mountain of Bones.
Mark, you are absolutely right, that the tendency is to pick up and "rush off to the brown parts of a city." And there's nothing wrong with that, but I would argue that we are called to simply treat everyone we meet with the kind of gentleness, mercy, and love that Jesus has shown us. And short of that, we should be willing to give them what we are willing to give ourselves. If we do that—and I'm not positive that we can in this world, but we should try for it with everything we've got—i really believe all the rest of this just falls away.