the Jesus Manifesto - Latest Comments in The Man and The Couch

Re: The Man and The Couch

Nate McKay — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:18:39 -0000

I would argue that if one is truly using the resources at their disposal, one has already jumped off the couch.

The image of a new earth would most certainly be what we are hoping for.

Re: The Man and The Couch

jtedvoigt — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:25:30 -0000

You raise some equally important points here.

Personally, I feel convicted -- I believe convicted by God-- to a life of compassion for the poor --those upon whom the wealthier of us rest our feet, whether we care to realize it or not. I do not, however, believe that everyone does or should share that conviction. Some are called, as it were, to "go as poor among the poor", while others are called to use their resources and position to do what they can in the hierarchies of power, be it the church, the state, or what have you. I think if you can honestly say that you are using the resources at your disposal for the good of humanity, to benefit people of all "worlds", then perhaps the man on whose back our couch is resting may well be cheering you on, gladly carrying you toward a better future.

As for the question of whether there is enough space on the couch for everyone, I think that may be an image of the "new earth" we are hoping towards as Christians.

Re: The Man and The Couch

joet — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:58:10 -0000

There isn't enough space on the couch for everyone.

Re: The Man and The Couch

jurisnaturalist — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:43:11 -0000

Will I be chided relentlessly if I question the nature of your couch?
In what ways do I, sitting in Panera on a leather chair, typing on a laptop, ride on the backs of the third world? I have an infinitely better quality of life than 90% of the world's population, and I have not worked for over three years since I went back to school.
But how would they be better off if I were not sitting here? What could I actually be doing to make their lives better? What are the actual barriers to improvement over their lives?
Would buying fair trade coffee make that much of a difference, or does it merely misdirect scarce resources and perpetuate the poverty of others?
Would it be better for me to consume less? Would the reduction in demand help those who produce at the lowest levels, or take even the low-paying job they have now away from them?
My understanding at this point requires that we work not for equality in ends but rather justice in means. The most oppressive institutions are not market based but government based. The best possible aid to poor Hatians is to give them each a green card. Artificial barriers to participation in voluntary processes are better identified as FORCE.
That couch you are carrying has a name, it is THE STATE. When you ride the couch you rely on GOVERNMENT PRIVILEGE.
How can we best help these people? Work for open boarders, free markets, elimination of privilege (especially corporate), and invite or sponsor the oppressed to live with us.
Sitting on a couch implies no guilt.

Re: The Man and The Couch

jtedvoigt — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:50:53 -0000

wow, thanks for writing that. Right now I feel like I'm off the couch and having a chat with some of the folks underneath it, but I still find myself looking forward to the time I can go back to sitting and talking about my experiance. This metaphor is really quite accurate I think.

The more I think about it, the more I think that there will always be people sitting on couches, and simply getting up off our butts may not be quite enough; we must find ways to help carry the load. And not just enable the people under the couch to get their own couches either. How does that happen? God help us find a way.

Re: The Man and The Couch

MJMcEvoy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:40:52 -0000

Nate:
Sad but all too true.
How often people feel that throwing scraps of used clothing makes up for our ride.
It reminds me of a "reality show" that National Geographic had several years ago. A family from St. Louis was sent to live with a nomadic family in Mongolia. First thing the father did when he got back to his home was send a chain saw to the Mongol family. We have way too much stuff and so little wisdom.

Re: The Man and The Couch

zackallen — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:40:55 -0000

I almost cried while reading this...

Re: The Man and The Couch

joet — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:26:43 -0000

The simple answer is I don't know, Nate. I think things might be better if we sofa-sitters didn't exist.

I like your parable. It reminds me of a script my friend once wrote which was about an evil Blofeld character who had invented the world's most powerful weapon - the armchair. Bond sat in the chair and was bombarded with images of pain and suffering, and ultimately was shaken but not stirred.

Re: The Man and The Couch

Nate McKay — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:51:41 -0000

It's a parable of sorts obviously. I wrote it one day after it really hit me that the vast majority of our society is built on the backs of the third world, or those living in poverty period. We go and help out at times. Even try to change our society to make us uncomfortable. But when you get down to it, we're still being carried by the rest of the world. It's our comfort on their backs. At least that's the cliff notes version.

The question is:

How do we change that?

Try to be respectful with any responses.

Re: The Man and The Couch

Daniel — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:53:37 -0000

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure I get it.
Are you talking about "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish he'll start his own profitable fishing business?"